thoughts on 3betting when you have 30-50bbs

[FieryJustice]

This hand came up the other day in the sunday mil that got me thinking.

We were down to 200ish people. I had about 35bbs. I had 33 on the button. A guy who had been raising prob 25% of his hands made it 2.5bbs. I wanted to call but everyone in the room told me I was an idiot, so I decided to listen to them and reraise to 8bbs or so.

Assuming the 25% raiser is good, he is prob almost always pushing or folding. Why would I want to turn a hand with some value like 33 into a bluff when I could just call and prob stack the guy on a good flop for me? I think this basically applies to hands like suited connectors as well, and all other hands you would raise and not be too sure what to do, like AJ etc.

Also, while I have you all here, I kinda wanted to talk about small pairs as well. I see these people on tv all the time raising and reraising 22 like its the nuts. I know that I usually fold small pairs from ep and sure dont 3bet all in when them, yet it seems like a lot of people do it. Am I just retarded or do I simply not fully realize the value of small pairs?

Ok...thats it for now. Flame away. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Bakes]

If he's raising 25% of hands and your in position i'd flat as well, float him, flop some sets and fold the likely flops that hit him.

As for the second part, people don't like to fold pairs ever. Aint news to me!

[durrrr]

i always choose wrong... it makes me sad

[hasuuser]

3 beting is bad here. You are almost comiting yourself with a 3-bet and you can play 33 way more profitably with flating.

[Mench]

i really prefer flatting and stacking him on a good flop, floating on applicable flops, or value/bluff getting it in with draws...i think reraising is pretty bad

[LearnedfromTV]

In general, flatcalling with a wide range with 40bb is fine (sometimes even AK!). Part of this is because (as you indicated) against most opponents, whether you want to 3bet/call or 3bet/fold is a greater part of the determination of whether a 3bet is good than is the case with 100 bb (where you are more likely to be called and play a 3bet pot in position). That is, your hot and cold equity versus his preflop 4bet range (as well as his raise/fold frequency) plays a lot more into a proper 3bet range than it does a 3bet range deeper.

Since a big part of playing well in 40bb pots as the caller is knowing when you can win without showdown, as long as you play well flat calling 33 there is better than reraising, because versus an opponent whose raising range is so weak that you can reraise him with any 2 (assuming you would fold 33 to a shove), calling and floating is at least as profitable, especially when you factor in that you can stack his strongest hands when you flop a set.

As for small pairs as resteals, I think the tendency lately is for people to call resteals lighter, which hurts 22 more than it hurts say QJ. Because most of the lighter calls that call QJ don't have it dominated, and stuff like 55 is a coin flip. Being called by a few more coin flip hands is neutral to 22, just like being called by 55 is neutral to QJ, but being called by 55 is more of a disaster for 22 than A7 is for QJ. That there are still way many more high card hands than pairs mitigates this a bit, but as you widen the calling range, the advantange 22 has over QJ gets smaller. That said, 22 is still significantly better against most calling ranges than QJ, although if you make the calling ranges more pair-heavy (as compared with the pokerstove top x% ranges), which better approximates people's actual calling ranges (e.g. Q9s is in the stove top 16% but 55 isn't, although more people call 55 than Q9s), 22 gets weaker.

Versus tight raising ranges, restealing 22 is suicidal, but so is restealing QJ.

I think folding small pairs in EP (nine-handed, spots 1-3) is correct most of the time.

[WarDekar]

[ QUOTE ]
In general, flatcalling with a wide range with 40bb is fine (sometimes even AK!). Part of this is because (as you indicated) against most opponents, whether you want to 3bet/call or 3bet/fold is a greater part of the determination of whether a 3bet is good than is the case with 100 bb (where you are more likely to be called and play a 3bet pot in position). That is, your hot and cold equity versus his preflop 4bet range (as well as his raise/fold frequency) plays a lot more into a proper 3bet range than it does a 3bet range deeper.

Since a big part of playing well in 40bb pots as the caller is knowing when you can win without showdown, as long as you play well flat calling 33 there is better than reraising, because versus an opponent whose raising range is so weak that you can reraise him with any 2 (assuming you would fold 33 to a shove), calling and floating is at least as profitable, especially when you factor in that you can stack his strongest hands when you flop a set.

As for small pairs as resteals, I think the tendency lately is for people to call resteals lighter, which hurts 22 more than it hurts say QJ. Because most of the lighter calls that call QJ don't have it dominated, and stuff like 55 is a coin flip. Being called by a few more coin flip hands is neutral to 22, just like being called by 55 is neutral to QJ, but being called by 55 is more of a disaster for 22 than A7 is for QJ. That there are still way many more high card hands than pairs mitigates this a bit, but as you widen the calling range, the advantange 22 has over QJ gets smaller. That said, 22 is still significantly better against most calling ranges than QJ, although if you make the calling ranges more pair-heavy (as compared with the pokerstove top x% ranges), which better approximates people's actual calling ranges (e.g. Q9s is in the stove top 16% but 55 isn't, although more people call 55 than Q9s), 22 gets weaker.

Versus tight raising ranges, restealing 22 is suicidal, but so is restealing QJ.

I think folding small pairs in EP (nine-handed, spots 1-3) is correct most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said, a lot of things I've been thinking about lately summed up nicely.

[curtains]

I don't like reraising at all.

[Inyaface]

I'd rather raise 910o

[MrTimCaum]

the problem with flat calling small pairs against someone that you feel is opening as high as 25% is that there's always a chance we won't get to see a flop if the sb or bb squeeze, and this is especially bad for us. by no means am i advocating "fold > flat call/reraise," but i've definitely done it a few times lately when i feel like there's no better option because i think there's a good chance a flat call will induce a reraise from the blinds or that if i reraise, there's a good chance i'll have to call a 4-bet shove from the OR or the blinds.

hope that made sense.