thoughts on 3betting when you have 30-50bbs

[betgo]

The reraise is bad here. You are putting in almost 25% of your stack. You assume that you fold to a push, but it is actually a close decision whether or not to call, which is a good reason not to reraise.

Also, the reraise puts you in a worse if villain flat calls. He may have an advantage now acting first, rather than you with position. Also, you usually have no idea whether 33 is ahead.

The only outcome you like is if villain folds to the reraise.

As for turning 33 into a bluff, it is not such a good hand anyway and just folding is not terrible, so you are not losing a lot.

I generally like to flat call raises with this stack size. The reraise does simplify your decisions.

The reraise/fold line is more playable with a larger stack of maybe 40xBB.

I think that people tend to flat call too much with 50+xBB. With 33xBB to a small raise, it is harder to reraise.

[gobboboy]

I like reraising here because you want to find out where your opponent is at in the hand and you know if he calls or reraises then he has you beat. You need to protect your hand against the overcards.

[betgo]

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I like reraising here because you want to find out where your opponent is at in the hand and you know if he calls or reraises then he has you beat. You need to protect your hand against the overcards.

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Don't understand. If villain has AK or AQ, he is probably pushing and he doesn't have you beat. If fact, you are the favorite. It isn't stated what position villain raised from, but he could push lighter than AQ if he thinks he has FE.

If you are going to reraise with the intention of folding to a reraise, I like a reraise to like 7xBB. It saves you money, and villain doesn't know if you are doing this because you are folding to the reraise or because you want action.

[gobboboy]

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I like reraising here because you want to find out where your opponent is at in the hand and you know if he calls or reraises then he has you beat. You need to protect your hand against the overcards.

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Don't understand. If villain has AK or AQ, he is probably pushing and he doesn't have you beat. If fact, you are the favorite. It isn't stated what position villain raised from, but he could push lighter than AQ if he thinks he has FE.

If you are going to reraise with the intention of folding to a reraise, I like a reraise to like 7xBB. It saves you money, and villain doesn't know if you are doing this because you are folding to the reraise or because you want action.

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Betgo,

I'm still not sure if your chip outlay is out of proportion to a reasonable expectation.

[betgo]

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I like reraising here because you want to find out where your opponent is at in the hand and you know if he calls or reraises then he has you beat. You need to protect your hand against the overcards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't understand. If villain has AK or AQ, he is probably pushing and he doesn't have you beat. If fact, you are the favorite. It isn't stated what position villain raised from, but he could push lighter than AQ if he thinks he has FE.

If you are going to reraise with the intention of folding to a reraise, I like a reraise to like 7xBB. It saves you money, and villain doesn't know if you are doing this because you are folding to the reraise or because you want action.

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Betgo,

I'm still not sure if your chip outlay is out of proportion to a reasonable expectation.

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Don't understand. I thought you said reraise/fold. You mean you chip outlay is too much if you reraise or if you flat call?

[gobboboy]

Nevermind, my last two posts were purely in jest. I think jon is absolutely correct, reraising here is really bad.

[WarDekar]

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the problem with flat calling small pairs against someone that you feel is opening as high as 25% is that there's always a chance we won't get to see a flop if the sb or bb squeeze, and this is especially bad for us. by no means am i advocating "fold > flat call/reraise," but i've definitely done it a few times lately when i feel like there's no better option because i think there's a good chance a flat call will induce a reraise from the blinds or that if i reraise, there's a good chance i'll have to call a 4-bet shove from the OR or the blinds.

hope that made sense.

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One of my favorite new things is calling squeezes light with marginal hands.

[sheetsworld]

30-35 bbs is a very tough stack facing a raise, and you should evaluate your holdings in only 2 groups, with a possible 3rd group in a particular case...

1.Those with which you are willing to get all your chips in preflop against the open raiser. (You will be geting a bit less than 2-1 if you get 4 bet)

and

2.All other possible starting hands.

If you have a group 1 hand then you can reraise pre against all players, with the added vig of giving the impression that you do have enough to fold, which may get some marginal holdings to 4 bet you.

If you have a group 2 hand you can reraise too, but there is no difference between 33 and 62 off in this spot because you are folding to a 4 bet anyway. However, group 2 hands should only be reraised with when the original raiser has a large gap between his opening range and his 4 bet range.

Jon you assume that the guy is opening wide with top 25% which is meaningful, but it is quite important what % of this 25% he will be 4 betting. There are guys like this out there, players who dont mind opening anything but fold to any pressure. The people who correctly tighten their open/4 bet gap require that we introduce a ...

Group 3: Hands that you would not mind getting allin with getting 2-1 against someone capable of 4 betting wide. These hands very well may include stuff like 33 and some suited broadways maybe whatever.

So in general, when dealing with the very difficult 30-35 bb stacks, you really can reraise 33 against some people for f/e only and for others actually because of the possibility that there is some showdown value if you get 4 bet.

Considering ths particular stage of the tournament, I feel that people opening for raises actually do have a pretty wide opening range, and they are usually quite scared of reraises, so I would be inclined to 3 bet more than usual.

I dont like calling with this stack at all unless I have a monster hoping to get a squeeze from behind or a cbet from the opener a huge % of the time, but again I prefer to reraise premiums here as well. I think you overestimate how often you can "stack someone here on a good flop for me"


sheets

[Pudge714]

Sheets and L4TV basically solved this thread.

Gobbo,
You have just as good implied odds as you would if you were in the BB so I think our chip outlay is out of proportion to a reasonable expectation.

[ASPoker8]

I generally just fold 22-55 when I am out of position and dont have set odds and facing a competant player.

Is this a leak?