TT vs. WhoooooohKid

[baltostar]

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Baltostar- you are ignoring the % of the time Bakes folds if we shove.

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I'm not ignoring it. I was just stoving some shove call equities. Does anyone know of a tool where you can compare one line against another ? I don't think there is one yet.

If you call/shove-most-flops, I think you have better FE. Villain only gets 2 cards for his post-flop call, as opposed to 5 for a pre-flop call.

I think it's close but I think call/shove-most-flops is better. But I'm too tired to work up all the math right now.

[apestyles]

I really think raising 88 with the intention of folding especially vs. the BB (the most common spot to reshove from since u are last to act) is fairly terrible. If you are raise folding 88 you might as well be raise folding 9Ts since it flops a little better.

Bakes open mucking 88 here seems really unlikely (bakes do u open muck 88 here?) but open mucking is better than raise folding in my opinion. I am fairly certain I have never open mucked 88 in a non satellite situation although it certainly seems like a reasonable play here.

[eBo]

From what I know of Bakes game(and it seems like he's always at my table),I would bet that he open mucks here. And I'm sure 99% of players don't.

And if he is open raising w/88 UTG, then it is -EV for him to call my shove.

[DJ Pattiecake]

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I really think raising 88 with the intention of folding especially vs. the BB (the most common spot to reshove from since u are last to act) is fairly terrible. If you are raise folding 88 you might as well be raise folding 9Ts since it flops a little better.

Bakes open mucking 88 here seems really unlikely (bakes do u open muck 88 here?) but open mucking is better than raise folding in my opinion. I am fairly certain I have never open mucked 88 in a non satellite situation although it certainly seems like a reasonable play here.

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After reading this i can't tell how you would play it 88 here, ape. It seems like you are saying any play is bad.

[uclabruinz]

He raise/calls with it.

[adanthar]

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I'm 75% sure Bakes open folds 88 UTG in this situation

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wow no way

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I really think raising 88 with the intention of folding especially vs. the BB (the most common spot to reshove from since u are last to act) is fairly terrible. If you are raise folding 88 you might as well be raise folding 9Ts since it flops a little better.

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but w/o an "opens light" read, the BB shoving light on a UTG raiser with a 20x stack is suicidal in the first place, so this can go back and forth for a while

[sheetsworld]

shove for all of the reasons said by all of the poeple who said shove.

sheets

[d2themfi]

seems like a fairly easy flat to me. Also there is no way that raise calling with 88 here is +Chipev, he would need 43.66% equity to break even here. The 3bettors range would have to be something like 77+, AJ+, KQ. Which seems suicidal if we are the BB here. I think open mucking 88 utg with 21 bb with no ante in play is the correct play

[curtains]

seems like really obvious call against a solid opener.

I've done some quick math but too lazy to post it. Assuming I did it right, against someone who is sort of tightish/solid UTG, and calling with JJ+, AK+, pushing should be clearly -EV.

[Bakes]

i'm always raising 88 here....i guess whether i call a shove or not is player dependent [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]