Party 5/10 QQ on button

michw · #1 03-14-2006, 09:29 PM

Feel free to comment on any street, maybe this is standard.

BB is 37/16/1.1 Usually passive postflop unless he has overpair. Have seen him 3 bet 10's and A's preflop and play both aggressively postflop.
MP is 33/23/1.9 Steal range is pretty wide.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, BB caps, MP calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, MP calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.20 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.20 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 18.20 BB

econophile · #2 03-14-2006, 09:33 PM

looks good to me

ArturiusX · #3 03-14-2006, 09:46 PM

*yawn*

toss · #4 03-14-2006, 10:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
*yawn*

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just thinking the same exact thing!

Nick C · #5 03-14-2006, 10:14 PM

I'm wondering, if we hadn't picked up the flush draw, if we could get away on the turn. BB probably has us beat. (That flop cap looks like bad news to me.)

That said, it's a fold I'd have trouble making at the table, and since we've seen BB 3-bet TT and play aggressively with it postflop (was he getting played back at?), maybe folding wouldn't be a good idea anyway.

toss · #6 03-14-2006, 10:21 PM

I think trying to find folds in large pots is a bad idea. Sometimes hand reading tells us that we're beat, but the pot size just dictates a calldown. The biggest reason for me folding in large pots with good hands is when a non-LAG checkraises in a protected pot on a scary turn or river or when a really passive player bets or raises.

W. Deranged · #7 03-14-2006, 10:24 PM

Y'all may be yawning, but I'm personally not convinced yet why raising this flop is going to be the correct play. I think it honestly might be a considerable spew.

If we are three-betting the flop, it should probably be with the intent of using the information that we got capped to get away from the hand cheaply. in other words, we shouldn't be calling the river in this case.
Why not call the two on the flop? We're not doing anything to protect our hand on the flop with a raise. If we just call, and then BB calls behind us, we may get a chance to shut out his AK or whatever by raising a safe turn card. I'm not convinced that we have any kind of equity edge at all considering the action before us and the high likelihood that the BB has a better overpair.

So I vote for calling the flop and reevaluating. Three-betting and opening ourselves up to a cap and then calling down anyway just because we have an overpair seems pretty mindless. Our hero has told us that villain gets passive post-flop without the goods.

sharpie · #8 03-14-2006, 11:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Y'all may be yawning, but I'm personally not convinced yet why raising this flop is going to be the correct play. I think it honestly might be a considerable spew.

If we are three-betting the flop, it should probably be with the intent of using the information that we got capped to get away from the hand cheaply. in other words, we shouldn't be calling the river in this case.
Why not call the two on the flop? We're not doing anything to protect our hand on the flop with a raise. If we just call, and then BB calls behind us, we may get a chance to shut out his AK or whatever by raising a safe turn card. I'm not convinced that we have any kind of equity edge at all considering the action before us and the high likelihood that the BB has a better overpair.

So I vote for calling the flop and reevaluating. Three-betting and opening ourselves up to a cap and then calling down anyway just because we have an overpair seems pretty mindless. Our hero has told us that villain gets passive post-flop without the goods.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

ArturiusX · #9 03-14-2006, 11:56 PM

I semi agree, but the pots too big to fold IMO. We'll see tilt hands/AJ type hands often enough. Without the flushdraw, I might be able to fold the turn, and I probably won't.

michw · #10 03-15-2006, 03:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If we are three-betting the flop, it should probably be with the intent of using the information that we got capped to get away from the hand cheaply. in other words, we shouldn't be calling the river in this case.
Why not call the two on the flop? We're not doing anything to protect our hand on the flop with a raise. If we just call, and then BB calls behind us, we may get a chance to shut out his AK or whatever by raising a safe turn card. I'm not convinced that we have any kind of equity edge at all considering the action before us and the high likelihood that the BB has a better overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was thinking when I reviewed this hand. I wasn't sure what MP had, but when BB capped the flop I was sure I was beat. Then I picked up the heart draw on the turn, and I was getting 15:1 odds on the river, and I continued to pay, and wondered if a good player saves a bet somewhere.

Final Pot: 18.20 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has Kd Ks (one pair, kings).
MP has 9h 8h (flush, jack high).
Hero has Qh Qd (one pair, queens).
Outcome: MP wins 18.20 BB.