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  #1  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:37 AM
JSampras1 JSampras1 is offline
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Default Stars 1/2 - AA 3 way vs a lot of action

Wondering if this was misplayed somewhere. Please let me know what you think of my line.

MP3 is 36%/2.7%/AF 1, BB is 24%/21%/AF 1.8

When the guy limp/4 bet the flop i wasn't really happy about it. I was thinking there's a good chance i'm against at least 2 pair. When the flush card hit, if it went bet/raise i would have folded.

I can't fold for 1 more small bet. There's a good chance i'm beat, but the pot is so big, and we're in relatively late position, so it's possible someone thought i'm on a steal and is overplaying.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (12 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Now this guy bets out the K, and the other guy just calls. If MP3 raises i fold. I thought the bet out was strange, and could easily be AK or the Ad. I don't really understand MP3's call. Either he was overplaying the j, or he's a donk and is scared to bet his set or 2 pair. Anyway i called for 1 more.

River: (15 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 18 BB

Another bad card, but BB's check means I have him beat, and it's 1 bet back to me in this huge pot. I am pretty sure i'm behind, but i'm getting 17-1 so this is an easy call right?

Should i have folded earlier, or is this standard?
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:54 AM
DavidSRT DavidSRT is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - AA 3 way vs a lot of action

I would play it the same way, looks good to me. NH
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2007, 04:41 AM
gito gito is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - AA 3 way vs a lot of action

I think you played it well, the river is a definite call.

The thing is I can't put MP3 on much of a range. He must have something like QJ, and he is going mad with top pair on the flop, on the turn he is scared of K and a possible flush, but still calls, and on the river he has two pair? or maybe he has queens and slowed down when the K hit on the turn?
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2007, 06:53 AM
Smurph64 Smurph64 is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - AA 3 way vs a lot of action

Bottom line in a preflop capped pot slowing down because a flush holding of diamonds hits the turn is costing you money more often than it is saving you bets to lose.

It is imperative to forget about protecting losses when you hold AA until you get a lot of information from your opponents that you are beat.

This isn't the case here. Why would you give them an opportunity to catch up and hit another diamond if they are holding the case Ace?

If you are afraid of a set well it doesn't matter you are beat anyways, if they have a set they misplayed it so you already saved money. Unless you plan on folding to a bet never slow down in this sitation.

Max your winnings with AA as much as possible. Unless you plan on being tricky and check raising the turn. But the K being the flush card kind of kills that trick with a capped preflop.
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:58 AM
neurotiq neurotiq is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - AA 3 way vs a lot of action

Looks good to me. Nice hand. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #6  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:40 PM
JSampras1 JSampras1 is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - AA 3 way vs a lot of action

Smurph thinks i'm an idiot who should be playing .05/.1, so I don't know why he's even bothering giving me advice when he already wrote 2 1000 word posts about how my game is absolutely terrible and there's no reason even asking advice.

But anyway, why do i want to lead here? If it goes bet/raise behind me I save money if i don't bet. If i bet and it's raised, unless i'm bet/folding i'm just putting more money in the pot where if i'm not behind now a ton of cards kill my hand. I'm almost sure someone will bet anyway, and i would rather see the river for 1 bet than 2, especially because the diamond kills my hand if i'm not beat already.

Maybe i'm just awful, but i really don't see how leading that turn is good.
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  #7  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:26 PM
Smurph64 Smurph64 is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - AA 3 way vs a lot of action

I think I stated it pretty clearly. The pot is capped preflop, that changes what people play with usually. A 3 flush board, especially when one is a king isn't soemthing to concern myself with. Sure crap happens and someone may have hit, but they don't more than enough times to justify betting the turn.


If you think he has KK then sure a mubs check makes sense.

For me I don't play AA other than to win big or lose big. To play them any other way when they win ~80% of the time and hold up at showdown 70% of the time really doesn't make sense unless someone demonstrates they have a better hand.

Checking the turn and then someone betting does nothing to demonstrate they have a better hand.

If they reraise then sure fold if you think you are beat. I have folded AA. Many people can't so they want to go to showdown and call down.

I have lost 10 bb on AA hands, I have lost 9 and 8.5 a number of times. I still win on avg 2.72bb/hand with it. That may be a bit low but its not really a leak I am concerned with by starting to play conservatively everytime someone may outdraw me.
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  #8  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:51 PM
JSampras1 JSampras1 is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - AA 3 way vs a lot of action

I'm not saying I don't play AA strong. However, i see a lot of good players raising AA on every street at every opportunity. I don't think this is necessarily a good thing.

Several posters said standard, good hand, then Smurph says i played it dead wrong. I'm wondering if anyone has any other advice on this.

Smurph, i was wondering what site/limits you play. I know you play higher than me, i'm just wondering if maybe the games play different. It could be that i just suck, i have no idea. I'm just trying to figure out why I'm getting such conflicting advice.
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  #9  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:26 PM
Smurph64 Smurph64 is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - AA 3 way vs a lot of action

Why is raising AA a potentially bad thing?

In my experience, playing AA passively is acceptable only when you have significant information on either the players in question or the hand specifically.

I am not sure you have done this.

I am actually quite surprised by people saying this is a good course of action you chose.

I am considered by many to be a lagtard here. But consider the preflop, capped 3 way. AKs comes to mind as a potential holding. I hold two aces and one of the diamonds is the king. Hrmm, did he play preflop with KK? Maybe but if I have AA again and a Q of Spades comes and someone donks it am I going to check down?

Does this guy play with AQs? that is the only holding I really need to think about and again its the same as KK or any other set holding.

I am going to lose the max to a turn donk.

I suspect the other player holds pocket queens.

Based on the betting if BB had the flush or KK he wouldn't have called the river.

What I am saying is I think you were outdrawn on the river not the turn.

I have little doubt you would have lost more playing it aggro but that result is part of the 20% you lose.

In my mind I can't worry about losing less. I know I am going to win AA 4 times out of 5.

10 times over 55k hands at 6 max I have lost 7.5bb + with AA.

I have won 35 times with AA when the pot was greater than 7.5bb, 4 times when the pot was over 12.

Its well worth it for me to continue to bet out on this turn.

If I get reraised I call down. As is I probably check that crappy river and fold two and call one.
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:05 PM
tiltaholic tiltaholic is offline
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Default Re: Stars 1/2 - AA 3 way vs a lot of action

without paying much attention to anything, your default play should be to lead the turn.

for more detail, you need to think about the following and report back on your findings:
how many hands are your stats based on?
based on the stats you posted:
how would you categorize MP3? (hint: loose/tight, passive/aggressive etc)
how would you categorize BB?
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