CTS did something like this in his video

[manupod]

CTS 3bet 65o, he bet the AK8 flop in position and shoved the 7 turn, saying the guy (krantz actually) folds often enough to make it plus ev, and he had like 18% equity when called.

In my hand (like in CTS) we figure to get called a lot and have a draw in a spot where taking the free card makes some sense. But w/ the flushdraw, gutter and maybe a live overcard if he calls w/ QJ or something, I have pretty good equity, and he argued that combined w/ fold equity (i've got to think i have some on this A turn) shove>checking

?

[Burcak]

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you're not cts.

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lol

so????

I dunno exactly what OP is refering to, but why would it work for CTS and not OP?

I mean if you have enough F/E in the shove to make up for calling and losing then its obv a good play. And like we are quite live if called...

Also, for most people I do not think this is a snap call with an underpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are not cts kinda means, since you are not him, you can't really determine whether or not it is +ev to shove.

I must also add that I really don't like everyone going "playing my first orbit, he is 52/15/6 over 80 hands" instead of "I don't usually pay attention". And "it was a misclick" instead of "I was bored of getting pushed around so I decided to call and couldn't give up on the pot". Or "pf raise was a misclick" instead of "I want badly to be called with my AA".

Not that I am sure it is not a misclick. But people misclick a lot more often in the hands posted here than I see on the tables.

[Melchiades]

People do float AK from time to time guys, even when they shouldn't. So if you are all instacalling with KK/QQ as villain you will see the pot shipped the other way fairly often when you add in sets and AJ.

[_Sundance]

Like the CTS referenced hand, I think this could be a good example of a turn bet that needs a small fold% to be +ve ev given villians likely calling range and frequencies.

I say could be because you really need to know your opps cbet tendencies in raised pots and ideally you need to know how he views your preflop call (I alomost always fold here btw).

Readless, I would guess that 22/17 could well have 99+/AJ+/some suited connectors for his 3bet. Assuming he cbets most of the hopeless hands then your bet is a must.

If he always calls with a hand like QQ your move is slightly +ve ev (6bbs). With KK/AK you are only slightly -ve (10bbs).

So, if you think he's only 3betting with JJ+/AJ+ and always calling here then check. If you think he's a bit wider than that and/or may fold QQ/KK then push it.

If he does call then you've messed with his head for future hands as he now thinks you are an idiot and you should be able to adjust for this better than him since you know that you are not [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

[Clever Nickname]

I think a shove here can be pretty good, but it is a bit opponent specific; some players would fire again at that ace with air, some would just check/fold. That said, you have 12 squeaky clean outs here, which means (math hidden because typing it all out would suck) if he folds 33% of the time, this play is +EV, and against a 22/17's reraising range I think you can get him to fold at least that much. It's also possible that your king or queen outs may even be good, which would give you even better odds.

Now, just because a shove here is (probably) +EV, does that make it more +EV than checking behind and trying to hit something? I have no idea. But if you do get called, it will probably be great for your image.

[orange]

well i mean, once you get to the turn, ya shove. floating in rr-ed pots requires deeper stacks and a decent read.

also yeah, if he can hand read at all, he should snap you. the ace changed little.

[KRANTZ]

the hand in that cardrunners vid that cole played vs me is slightly similar to this but ultimately too dissimilar to really compare the two situations.

here, you have a 3-bet pot in a 6handed game - there, you had a 4-bet pot in a very aggressive HU match.

in this hand, you're probably getting called damn often. someone should do the math on the EV of the shove, but barring that, you floated the flop, now have over 10 outs and it's good for your image to splash around like this now and then.

[Snipe]

[ QUOTE ]
People do float AK from time to time guys, even when they shouldn't. So if you are all instacalling with KK/QQ as villain you will see the pot shipped the other way fairly often when you add in sets and AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the amount of retards 3betting ATC from the blinds @ NL200, I'm fine with this.

[Speedlimits]

pf is fine/standard against light 3bettors.

this line is pretty good. shoving flop and folding are both viable options as well.

[deaders]

this is much better and pretty standard if you were the pf 3 bettor and flop aggressor, as it is you should get called a lot unless he has complete air. But if the guy is any good he should have bet the turn with air so its not looking great.