blinds war, bad river

kielbax · #1 06-06-2007, 07:54 PM

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $25/$50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

Hero (SB): $8,390.00
BB: $5,960.00
UTG: $6,788.00
MP: $5,070.00
CO: $1,730.00
BTN: $850.00

Reads: Villian is playing 19/15, one of better players at Party imo.
He 3bets me a lot in position. I decided to take a flop and was willing to stack off w/ one pair here.After i hit second pair i planned to checkraise all-in.
KQo is prolly the worst hand i call his 3bet oop.
I`m playing 16/13.

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
4 folds, Hero raises to $200.00, BB raises to $600.00, Hero calls $400.00

Flop: ($1200) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets $800.00, BB calls $800.00

Turn: ($2800) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BB checks

River: ($2800) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BB bets all-in for $4,560.00, Hero?

Comments on all streets appreciated.
Sorry if that`s another easy call.

TxRedMan · #2 06-06-2007, 08:57 PM

I call pretty quickly, but I also bet the turn.

I think he floated you with ace-high and is shoving hoping you look him up light.

Or he has AK and gg.

Still, call.

mkind0516 · #3 06-06-2007, 09:54 PM

Thats a big overbet on the river, from a guy playing very conservative. Is he really risking $4500 into a $2800 pot w/ air? I mean, he has to put u on something to lead that flop, possibly a Q. Do QJ or QT call the RR pre? Probably not. So KQ & AQ are 2 very big parts of your range. You've played the hand sneaky, but I still have a hard time calling the river. I really think he's got AA or KK (KK seems more likely). He didn't want to potentially raise you off a middle pair or top pair on the flop, so he played his overpair sneaky. He turned a sinche hand but didn't want you to have a chance to fold 88 or AQ here. The shove might just be a desperation chance to try to win a huge pot w/ a huge hand. He may also be trying to avoid an "obvious" looking value bet.

I think I fold just to be safe but I'm really not sure what the right play is here.

creedofhubris · #4 06-06-2007, 10:37 PM

Have you seen him make overbet bluffs before? The way this hand went down, all you beat is a bluff; you can't beat a value bet.

The key sequence here is your flop donk/call, then turn check/check. If he was floating the flop in order to bluff, why would he check the turn behind after you checked and a scare card came? Perfect time to represent a hand if he's got nothing.

I could see him reraising pre then calling your flop donk with something like a pair of 8s, thinking he might be good; then putting out that massive river bet to fold out a better hand after correctly deducing that you didn't like the card, but it seems much less likely than him actually being strong.

TxRedMan · #5 06-06-2007, 11:02 PM

That river is a perfect card for villain to bluff with, wouldn't you agree?

I've seen hands like this where villain shoves the river thinking (imo) 'i made a pair of aces, i hope he calls me b/c it looks like i'm bluffing, and maybe he folds a better hand often enough for this to be a bluff, too'

I'm having trouble defining the process right now b/c my neighbors are making a [censored] ton of noise and it's pissing me off.

Teh1337zor · #6 06-06-2007, 11:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That river is a perfect card for villain to bluff with, wouldn't you agree?

I've seen hands like this where villain shoves the river thinking (imo) 'i made a pair of aces, i hope he calls me b/c it looks like i'm bluffing, and maybe he folds a better hand often enough for this to be a bluff, too'

I'm having trouble defining the process right now b/c my neighbors are making a [censored] ton of noise and it's pissing me off.

[/ QUOTE ]

go break them in half

mkind0516 · #7 06-06-2007, 11:36 PM

Yes, but why risk $4500 into a $2800 pot when he could prob rep the same hand w/ a pot sized bet?

bair · #8 06-06-2007, 11:52 PM

fold...he knows what you have. i think the best youll see here if you call is a split. i think he almost always has AK, AQ, or KQ.

DJ Sensei · #9 06-07-2007, 12:04 AM

i dont like the flop lead unless you think he bluffraises it often.

as played, entirely depends on his overshoving tendencies. but your hand looks a whole lot weaker than it actually is, so i'd probably call.

creedofhubris · #10 06-07-2007, 01:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That river is a perfect card for villain to bluff with, wouldn't you agree?

[/ QUOTE ]

So was the turn, and yet villain didn't bluff it. If he was going to bluff, why did he let that opportunity go by?