Donkey Test - Call 5BB All-In?

[KipBond]

Late in a large No Limit Hold 'Em tournament. Blinds 1000-2000. You have 118,000 chips and are one of the chip leaders. It is folded around to the cutoff who goes all in for his last 10,000 chips. He is a good tournament player. SB folds.

You are in the BB and hold: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[KipBond]

This question is taken from the Donkey Test website, and is being discussed in the Beginner's Forum.

I think a good case can be made either way, but I lean more toward a fold here based on what I recently read in NLHTAP. Here is what my response was in the other thread:

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I answered "fold" on this one, but thought I might be wrong, so I looked it up. I don't understand the math behind this, but if you read the end of NLHTAP you will find a chart that answers this question. The pertinent information is that you are having to call $8k to a heads-up all-in with a pot of $13k. You are getting just a tad over 3:2 pot odds, so it is wrong to call if the all-in player is pushing with much better than any 2 cards.

Specifically, DS says it is wrong to call with T5o getting 3:2 on your money if your opponent is pushing with: AA-22, AK-A2, Any two cards 7 or higher (e.g. T7), K6-K4, and K3s-K2s

If he is pushing with a lot more than that (any two cards), then you can call.

I don't think the CO would be pushing with much less than that, since they have just passed the blinds and can afford to wait a few hands for a better hand to push with.

[levAA]

I think it was Harrington in HoH II (or maybe I?), who uses a simple rule for these situations -
As long as I have 10times the chip count of the small stack I call this with any 2 cards - because he weights the elimination factor high (late in a tournament).
So till now I found this rule very usefull and acted accordingly - thats why this is a call for me.

[Nairb]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it was Harrington in HoH II (or maybe I?), who uses a simple rule for these situations -
As long as I have 10times the chip count of the small stack I call this with any 2 cards - because he weights the elimination factor high (late in a tournament).
So till now I found this rule very usefull and acted accordingly - thats why this is a call for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the general rule I use and why I call here 100% as well. You may have 2 live cards and you are not killed against most hands he would push here.

[chh]

didnt harrington say he would "put them all-in" not call all-in? cause the extra fold equity obviously weighs in heavily.

Anyway:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.251% 41.86% 02.39% 10535890248 602458206.00 { T5o }
Hand 1: 55.749% 53.36% 02.39% 13430062140 602458206.00 { random }

And villain has exactly that here, a random hand. The spot is great for him to push after so many ppl are already out and first in vigorish and folders before you are so much more important than the actual card.
I would push here in his spot 100% of the time.

[Nairb]

No he said if you have a large stack and are squarely in the green zone call with ATC 100% if it costs you less than 10% of your stack to call. Equity for moving up in payouts trumps the times you lose the small pot. You may be in a relative coinflip as the shortstack could have also pushed with ATC.

[crankalicious]

I believe that Harrington said that with 10x, he would call any all-in.

In this particular example, it's an easy decision to call, I think, since the player's range is so wide. If he's a good player and everyone has folded to him and his M is 3.33, he's going to go all-in with almost anything.

There is one consideration that I haven't seen mentioned. If he's a good tournament player, he's noticed that you have a big stack and are likely to call him, so that would narrow his range and possibly affect the decision.

Still, I think it's a call.

[chh]

well moving up the ladder != late in tournament.. we might well be only in top30 by now and I surely wouldnt pay off any all - even if only for 5-10% of my stack - because eliminating someone isnt worth much until the final table

[aaaaa]

I vote call because:

1. The 10% rule and elimination premium
2. Also, here the villain puts in 10K in a ~5K pot, so 15K and you have to call 8K. So it's close to 2:1 and I use the 2:1 rule that HOH mentions also.

[Jerro]

Harrington said that with regards to headsup play I'm fairly sure...