2500 6max

[sinderg]

"ok i'll gamble with you, i'll help you out" is always 55-99 for me

[mastr]

well its really a 3 part question to determine a range. First we have to figure out if the old guy is weakish like 55-99 or say KQ. Then we have eto figure out if he'll fold his weakish hands to our shove behind. Then we have to figure out what hands play profitably in this situation against UTG getting 2:1 * the % that SB folds vs 2:1 3-way * the times SB calls.

[registrar]

1. I'm with Ike in that the guy doesn't see himself as fully loaded. I'd be really surprised if he flipped over QQ-AA. So I think we're on broadway aces, big kings and pairs most of the time.
2. I'd assume that he folds almost all of this range to a shove if hero has any table presence at all and if hero has done nothing untoward in his presence.
3. I'd assign a 20% margin of error to #2 and shove a little tighter than Ike: AT+, A9s+, QJs+, 66+.

All ranges are swivelled by the way I'd expect my image to be. I generally get a lot of respect live because for whatever reason so that would be my range. If you are a young hotshot with flaring nostrils, he'll call you wider.

As a side point, I think having the guy to your immediate right really pissed that you've shoved him off a better hand is worth quite a lot in itself.

[THEOSU]

i think the problem is that a few of us have a differing definition of the "jolly old guy".

in my experience, older guys who like to have fun but also take it seriously have a monster when they say stuff like this. these guys aren't tricky by rule, but this is as tricky as they get. it's like limping with aces. it's not tricky, but it's tricky, if you get what i'm saying.

however, if it's a guy who is more or less just happy to be playing and wants to play a lot of hands and says this, then yes, you can open your range a whole lot more.

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
i think the problem is that a few of us have a differing definition of the "jolly old guy".

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really see Santa Claus showing up with AA here?

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
Small Blind is in his 50's, def bad at poker def jolly and not tricky. He says "ok i'll gamble with you, i'll help you out" and calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read this as he's got some pretty cards and we haven't crossed his mind. If he appears to have given our presence in the hand some consideration, then we can tighten the range.

[SonofDjugashvili]

Bad old guy generally means rock live, so when he says "I'll gamble" that probably means he has QQ because to him that's gambling. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I don't think he can have AA because he wouldn't use the gambling line. He probably has TT-KK, maaaaybe AK. Of course, the question is can you make him fold the low/mid end of that range?

[mastr]

[ QUOTE ]
Bad old guy generally means rock live, so when he says "I'll gamble" that probably means he has QQ because to him that's gambling. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I don't think he can have AA because he wouldn't use the gambling line. He probably has TT-KK, maaaaybe AK. Of course, the question is can you make him fold the low/mid end of that range?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[Eagles]

I think Ike's range is way too wide. My 3betting range pf is probably very narrow like QQ+ AK maybe jj or TT. but I would call a very wide range. Most people play really straight up in side pots so calling getting 2:1 is good with a pretty wide range.

edit: depending on reads I could definetely do something like min raise and fold to a shove.

[mastr]

I def think raise to like 2k fold to a shove could be correct, but if doing that then i feel it should be done with the very wide range that we are talking about 3-betting with anyways.