NL CASH ever OK to call this?

[Kassu]

He makes a donk-bet on a weird board and I take it as weakness from a player like him. On the river I can't really see him having anything, but on the other hand I don't think he's that crazy of a player. Did he really hit his eights, sixes, 97 of diamonds or 54? Ever ok to call this? Or maybe I'm just too big of a calling station?

Reads: pretty straightforward tight player. He probably sees me as agressive but solid. I sure had been playing like on.

NL $1/$2 Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, October 16, 18:36:41 GMT 2007
Table Madrid 08 2-max (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of active players : 2
Seat 1: thanks4cash ( $226.60 )
Seat 2: AceDude ( $200.20 )
thanks4cash posts small blind [$1]
AceDude posts big blind [$2]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to thanks4cash [ 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ]
thanks4cash raises to [$6]
AceDude calls [$4]
** Dealing Flop ** [ T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ]
AceDude bets [$12]
thanks4cash raises to [$36]
AceDude calls [$24]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
AceDude checks
thanks4cash checks
** Dealing River ** [ 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
AceDude bets [$84]
thanks4cash WTF?

[vodoo]

uhm... wait a minute you really wanna call this?

[Kassu]

What do you think he has?

Oh well, yeh ... fold it is. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Kassu]

Do you fold a T here? What about weak 2 pair? If he isn't bluffing then the hands that he's valuebetting will most likely have you beat.

[BarryLyndon]

your RR on the flop is a little silly, he's calling a wide range including any T and diamond draw, all of which are ahead. If you are going to RR here and you get called, you need to follow up on the turn as a value bet or, perhaps, as a bluff against 88/77/99. You're 6 doesn't have as much showdown value as you think and you are going to be swimming in a mess on the river more times than not.

The river is meh - he could be doing this for value or a bluff. More hands here for value than a bluff (whiffed flushes), because A10/K10/Q10/set of 8s/made straight (54) all play this for value.

Also, you can factor out a whiffed flush less, as at least some whiffed flushes (QdJd, Adxd, Kdxd) will 4-bet here. I know I would if I had a read on you.

Barry

[Kassu]

[ QUOTE ]
your RR on the flop is a little silly, he's calling a wide range including any T and diamond draw, all of which are ahead. If you are going to RR here and you get called, you need to follow up on the turn as a value bet or, perhaps, as a bluff against 88/77/99. You're 6 doesn't have as much showdown value as you think and you are going to be swimming in a mess on the river more times than not.

The river is meh - he could be doing this for value or a bluff. More hands here for value than a bluff (whiffed flushes), because A10/K10/Q10/set of 8s/made straight (54) all play this for value.

Also, you can factor out a whiffed flush less, as at least some whiffed flushes (QdJd, Adxd, Kdxd) will 4-bet here. I know I would if I had a read on you.

Barry

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, thanks, solid advice. Helps me a ton.

Would you take the initiative on flop with T here?

[BarryLyndon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
your RR on the flop is a little silly, he's calling a wide range including any T and diamond draw, all of which are ahead. If you are going to RR here and you get called, you need to follow up on the turn as a value bet or, perhaps, as a bluff against 88/77/99. You're 6 doesn't have as much showdown value as you think and you are going to be swimming in a mess on the river more times than not.

The river is meh - he could be doing this for value or a bluff. More hands here for value than a bluff (whiffed flushes), because A10/K10/Q10/set of 8s/made straight (54) all play this for value.

Also, you can factor out a whiffed flush less, as at least some whiffed flushes (QdJd, Adxd, Kdxd) will 4-bet here. I know I would if I had a read on you.

Barry

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, thanks, solid advice. Helps me a ton.

Would you take the initiative on flop with T here?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, probably not.

And a lot of "suspect" players are leading in the BB with TP because they just think they have to lead the betting or something like that. It's like an aggression/value hybrid. This looks like one of those spots. Sometimes, this is a frustrated midpair. Other times, it's a T. Othertimes it's air, but once you RR and he calls, you can be pretty sure it's not air. Like, in this spot, 88 can be doing this so much afraid of a Q, A, K, or J, and thinking there is no way you have a T.

Barry

[jakeduke]

Kassu,

I'd make the flop raise a bit smaller (I don't mind it at all btw). Players lead flops like this with all sorts of hands, so your raise is plenty profitable. Once he calls, his range is very heavily weighted towards Ts and flush draws. This is why I think the raise can be smaller - he's calling a raise to 28, 36, or 45 with a T or a flush draw, and he's folding Q9 to all of those raises as well. I actually don't think a call on the river is that bad at all; you only need to be good one time in 3, and he probably has bare diamonds here enough for that. I'm not too worried about an 8, as I think he checks behind his flush draw hands with an 8 trying to see a showdown. If he has a T or like 99, nh sir.