KQ on button - possible spaz villain

One Outer · #1 11-01-2007, 05:26 AM

Villain is new to the table. He posted 3 hands from the BB. UTG is loose as hell; he can literally have ATC, and passive.

Canterbury Park 8/16, game is temporarily six handed

Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG limps, UTG+1 (villain) limps, 1 fold, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, villain three bets, all call

Flop (4 players, 12 SB):

J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, UTG checks, villain bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 three bets, Hero calls, UTG calls

I'm not sure how much credit to give villain here. Generally guys that post three hands from the blinds and limp reraise are spazzes, but I don't want to assume that.

Turn (3 players, 11.5 BB):

2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG checks, villain bets, Hero raises, UTG folds, villain calls

This seemed like a good idea at the time. I thought I could clean my K outs by folding out UTG and likely get a free showdown. I'm anywhere from "meh" to "I suck" on this in retrospect.

River (15.5 BB, heads up):

Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Villain donks, Hero...

I have no idea what to do with my hand.

Tugg · #2 11-01-2007, 06:39 AM

the post/limp/reraise has me very confused.I don't see much value in raising the river, I would just call(which is what I do in big pots hu when I'm confused).Based on his Turn and river play he's representing a full house. I'm torn on the turn raise , but I think I like it.Its a big pot and you have to be aggressive.

OziBattler · #3 11-01-2007, 08:10 AM

hmmm, what would you have done if he 3bet the turn?

I think I just call down the turn. utg wont fold any decent draw even for 2 bets and I want to show this down. he might be a spaz but he is representing on a scary board and we currently only have TP2K

river..call it

James. · #4 11-01-2007, 09:13 AM

this hand seems like it was played without a plan. just kind of "flying by the seat of your pants". that's not good.

you have position. you can make sure a bet goes in on each street. you have the value of seeing what others do before you must act.

villian 3bet the flop and leads the turn. the only hands folding to your turn raise are those that you probably don't care if they stay in. plus, you don't get faced with a 3bet in a big pot that puts you in the position of calling down as an underdog to his range. use your position, call down and bet if checked to.

Hamlet · #5 11-01-2007, 11:46 AM

I think this was fine. I'm torn about the turn raise-- I don't want to pay 3-bets on the turn, but it worked out like you planned, so kudos.

I think I just call the river. I think you are good here a lot, but I want to verify that this guy is a spaz before getting stuck paying 3-bets on the river with this hand.

One Outer · #6 11-01-2007, 12:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this hand seems like it was played without a plan. just kind of "flying by the seat of your pants". that's not good.

you have position. you can make sure a bet goes in on each street. you have the value of seeing what others do before you must act.

villian 3bet the flop and leads the turn. the only hands folding to your turn raise are those that you probably don't care if they stay in. plus, you don't get faced with a 3bet in a big pot that puts you in the position of calling down as an underdog to his range. use your position, call down and bet if checked to.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see where you're coming from James but I sort of disagree. I did have a plan, and my plan changed because UTG called two cold on the flop. I'm trying to use my position to maximize my chances of winning the pot, my hand is very vulnerable to UTG's range and I want to face him with two cold. I do care a great deal if he stays in. I felt that given the preflop action and the board texture the odds of being three bet on the turn were very low. Had I been three bet the plan was to fold. I also planned to check the river through if I had not improved and was not bet into. Perhaps there is some crucial part of your argument I'm missing.

Aces McGee · #7 11-01-2007, 12:32 PM

One Outer

What are you considering UTG's range?

-McGee

One Outer · #8 11-01-2007, 12:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
One Outer

What are you considering UTG's range?

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

Any combination of pair and straight draw, possibly a worse Q. The only hand that I probably can't get him off are hearts but I'm willing to take the chance to fold out the straight draws.

Aces McGee · #9 11-01-2007, 12:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Had I been three bet the plan was to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad plan, because the pot is huge and we have a gutshot.

That's part of the argument for not raising the turn, FWIW. We're generally not ahead when the turn gets three-bet, but we have to call.

-McGee

Grease · #10 11-01-2007, 12:37 PM

First thing's first. I call the river as played.

I think the really interesting part of the hand is the turn. You got UTG to fold, which is nice, and UTG+1 only called, but if he has a set or two-pair, I doubt he 3-bets you there. Him donking the river is somewhat unnerving, but doing anything other than calling is probably spewage.

I don't like raising the turn because it might get your 3-bet, and you have a gutshot and have to call, but on the other hand, you could be ahead if he is a total spazz.

BTW, if you're trying to get UTG to fold a T, it will never happen. Basically, you could get him to fold a K and that's about it (a raise does accomplish that though, FWIW.)