Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows discussion thread (SPOILERS)

[rustyspeedy]

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Speaking of the doe. Was I the only one who was *sure* on first reading that the patronus which leads Harry to the sword was Ginny's??
I figured
* Harry wouldn't recognize it from DA training cause it changed like Tonks' when they were together, a doe to match his Stag.
* Earlier in the book, Ginny and co. were caught trying to steal the fake sword which indicated she was after it.
* Harry checks the Marauder's Map and doesn't see her soon before the Doe appears, and they make note of the fact that she isn't at Hogwarts due to the Holidays.

I was positive it would turn out to be her, and was trying to figure how she had realized the office sword was a fake, got the real one and how she tracked Harry (working theory was some sort of spell she set while kissing him on his birthday).

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That does follow pretty well. It was pretty nicely thought out and I admit I didn't even explore that possibility, but that is because I was pretty sure it was Snape all along.

The sword he puts in Gringotts ended up being a fake. I was sure that this wasn't an accident because I was waiting for Snape's redemption that, as was said, was patently obvious at the end of book 7.

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Finally, what exact role did the Deathly Hallows actually play? Besides the elder wand backfiring and owning Vold the other two didn't do anything. Was it just to teach Harry not to fear death?

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Well, technically he was a master of all of the Hallows once he went to face Voldemort. Though the logic in him 'owning' the wand is somewhat flawed, he was a master of the cloak and the resurrection stone as well.

Technically he 'united' the three Hallows before he went to face Voldemort. You can look at him bravely walking to death as 'conquering' it, or him coming back as kind of doing the same thing.

The stories are parallel as well, as was mentioned earlier. Perhaps owning the cloak can be attributed to him 'choosing' it, and him walking to certain Death also parallels the story. Coming back can probably be attributed to the Hallows though, even though there was some weird logic about him being anchored to Voldemort.

[mattnxtc]

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I think what everybody loves about Snape is the mystery behind him. You have this grand battle between DD and Voldy for whose teh most powerful, but as you continue to see Snape evolve, you are just amazed at the development of this character. He appears to be teh third most powerful person in the entire magical world.

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Hmm you think? I guess he is powerful.

I didn't get that snape was good before book 7. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I guess I never really analyzed things, I just read it.

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I think you begin to see how important snape is as the books unfold. As a student he was already coming up with spells that were worthwhile years later. He was the master of potions and the darkarts. He could fly, and i assume his dueling is probably unmatched except for by a few.

[CallMeIshmael]

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Speaking of the doe. Was I the only one who was *sure* on first reading that the patronus which leads Harry to the sword was Ginny's??
I figured
* Harry wouldn't recognize it from DA training cause it changed like Tonks' when they were together, a doe to match his Stag.
* Earlier in the book, Ginny and co. were caught trying to steal the fake sword which indicated she was after it.
* Harry checks the Marauder's Map and doesn't see her soon before the Doe appears, and they make note of the fact that she isn't at Hogwarts due to the Holidays.

I was positive it would turn out to be her, and was trying to figure how she had realized the office sword was a fake, got the real one and how she tracked Harry (working theory was some sort of spell she set while kissing him on his birthday).

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Whoa.


This is a very good theory and I have no idea how I missed thinking that at the time.


Dont get me wrong, I thought it was Snape. But, he is easily my fav. character, and the whole book was, for me, a lead up to Snapes story; the Harry/Voldemort stuff was an after thought, so I was obv. looking for Snape to save to day. But, nice thought.

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Why is Snape your favorite character? He was incredibly brave but was driven by very small and selfish motives and was never what you could consider a "good" guy. I can never shake that no matter how loyal he became to Dumbledore, he would have gladly participated in bringing about his downfall had it not been for the unlucky circumstance that his boss went after the girl he loved.

Or is that why you like him?

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He was my fav. character since I read the first book, so the Lilly stuff didnt have an effect.

Obv didnt like him through most of the first book, but from the end on, I really enjoyed his character. I think he is the most interesting/multi-dimensional character in the book (though, after 7, dumbledore gives him a good run).

Yeah, clearly he would not have turned good without Lilly, which is certainly a black mark over his character. I cant help but like him a bit less (it seems different than if he just one day realized the error of his ways), but I still love the character.


Also, something that wasnt mentioned in the thread, was during his chapter, was:

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“ – mediocre, arrogant as his father, a determined rule-breaker, delighted to find himself famous, attention-seeking and impertinent – ”
“You see what you expect to see, Severus,” said Dumbledore, without raising his eyes from a copy of Transfiguration Today. “Other teachers report that the boy is modest, likable, and reasonably talented. Personally, I find him an engaging child.”

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There is no reason Harry needs to hear this. Even when Snape is telling him about how he swore to protect him for his entire life, and he risked his life to help keep him safe, he still has to slip in that he doenst like him. I loved it.

[TheDudeAbides]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I think JK telegraphed the whole "Snape is actually good" thing. Specifically, when we find out that the DA tried to steal the sword and their punishment is simply to hang out with Hagrid in the forest. Too easy. Obviously Snape knew that Hagrid was close with them, so this wasn't much of punishment at all.

[rustyspeedy]

Too late to edit...

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The sword he puts in Gringotts ended up being a fake. I was sure that this wasn't an accident because I was waiting for Snape's redemption that, as was said, was patently obvious at the end of book 7.

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Meant to say book 6.

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Yeah, clearly he would not have turned good without Lilly, which is certainly a black mark over his character. I cant help but like him a bit less (it seems different than if he just one day realized the error of his ways), but I still love the character.

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It kind of makes you wonder what his motivation was for joining the Death Eaters. His worst memory was of calling Lily a mudblood and he had another memory where he told her there was no difference between muggle-born wizards and pure-blooded ones.

Snape did seem to be a powerful wizard, and I already mentioned it was anticlimactic to see him go like he did. Being able to parry spells and whatnot made him seem so badass in the 6th book. Although we knew he had a thing for Lily early on, I was hoping he had deeper and more magnificent reasons for his return to good as well.

Then again, it was meant to be a children's story, so I guess the sappy "love conquers all" thing should have been expected as opposed to any grandiose plot.

[Dilznoofus]

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Speaking of the doe. Was I the only one who was *sure* on first reading that the patronus which leads Harry to the sword was Ginny's??
I figured
* Harry wouldn't recognize it from DA training cause it changed like Tonks' when they were together, a doe to match his Stag.
* Earlier in the book, Ginny and co. were caught trying to steal the fake sword which indicated she was after it.
* Harry checks the Marauder's Map and doesn't see her soon before the Doe appears, and they make note of the fact that she isn't at Hogwarts due to the Holidays.

I was positive it would turn out to be her, and was trying to figure how she had realized the office sword was a fake, got the real one and how she tracked Harry (working theory was some sort of spell she set while kissing him on his birthday).

[/ QUOTE ]


Whoa.


This is a very good theory and I have no idea how I missed thinking that at the time.


Dont get me wrong, I thought it was Snape. But, he is easily my fav. character, and the whole book was, for me, a lead up to Snapes story; the Harry/Voldemort stuff was an after thought, so I was obv. looking for Snape to save to day. But, nice thought.

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Why is Snape your favorite character? He was incredibly brave but was driven by very small and selfish motives and was never what you could consider a "good" guy. I can never shake that no matter how loyal he became to Dumbledore, he would have gladly participated in bringing about his downfall had it not been for the unlucky circumstance that his boss went after the girl he loved.

Or is that why you like him?

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He was my fav. character since I read the first book, so the Lilly stuff didnt have an effect.

Obv didnt like him through most of the first book, but from the end on, I really enjoyed his character. I think he is the most interesting/multi-dimensional character in the book (though, after 7, dumbledore gives him a good run).

Yeah, clearly he would not have turned good without Lilly, which is certainly a black mark over his character. I cant help but like him a bit less (it seems different than if he just one day realized the error of his ways), but I still love the character.


Also, something that wasnt mentioned in the thread, was during his chapter, was:

[ QUOTE ]
“ – mediocre, arrogant as his father, a determined rule-breaker, delighted to find himself famous, attention-seeking and impertinent – ”
“You see what you expect to see, Severus,” said Dumbledore, without raising his eyes from a copy of Transfiguration Today. “Other teachers report that the boy is modest, likable, and reasonably talented. Personally, I find him an engaging child.”

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There is no reason Harry needs to hear this. Even when Snape is telling him about how he swore to protect him for his entire life, and he risked his life to help keep him safe, he still has to slip in that he doenst like him. I loved it.

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Yeah I agree about Snape being the most multi-dimensional. I was rooting for him from book 1 forward, but I guess I was disappointed that his motivations turned out be so narrow. He's certainly one of the story's most compelling characters. So sad when he hears Lily get chosen for Gryffindor and later when she ends their friendship because of his Mudblood comment.

[Dilznoofus]

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Too late to edit...

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The sword he puts in Gringotts ended up being a fake. I was sure that this wasn't an accident because I was waiting for Snape's redemption that, as was said, was patently obvious at the end of book 7.

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Meant to say book 6.

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Yeah, clearly he would not have turned good without Lilly, which is certainly a black mark over his character. I cant help but like him a bit less (it seems different than if he just one day realized the error of his ways), but I still love the character.

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It kind of makes you wonder what his motivation was for joining the Death Eaters. His worst memory was of calling Lily a mudblood and he had another memory where he told her there was no difference between muggle-born wizards and pure-blooded ones.

Snape did seem to be a powerful wizard, and I already mentioned it was anticlimactic to see him go like he did. Being able to parry spells and whatnot made him seem so badass in the 6th book. Although we knew he had a thing for Lily early on, I was hoping he had deeper and more magnificent reasons for his return to good as well.

Then again, it was meant to be a children's story, so I guess the sappy "love conquers all" thing should have been expected as opposed to any grandiose plot.

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I think it's partly that Rowling didn't wish to make Snape too redeemable. I see it as a mark of the story's relative maturity that she didn't let him off the hook completely. I also like the way it reinforced the "love conquers all" theme without exactly turning Snape into a hero. A little subtlety is nice even in a traditional epic like this one.

[RunDownHouse]

On a complete tangent, did anyone else think the whole subject of Potions was underrated throughout? I mean, its basically cooking, only easier, right? Every time anyone was shown to [censored] it up, its because they forgot something, or read a line wrong; its not like they couldn't tell how long a rare steak needs versus a medium-rare.

But at the same time, potions seemed to be able to do things that would be comparatively really hard for a [censored] wizard to do, like Polyjuice or Felix or whatever. It just seemed to me that if someone said, "You can be a second year and make a potion that will disguise you as another person, or you can study transifguration for decades and maybe never achieve the same result," I'd be think, "Sweet! Potions it is!"

[Dilznoofus]

Yeah there's a ton of stuff in the books like this. That's why I try not to think about it too much.

Take Quidditch for instance. That's the dumbest game I've ever heard of. It almost never matters what the other players do because way too many points are given to the team that gets the snitch. And why would the seeker ever catch the snitch when his team is more than 150 points behind?

Also, anyone have an answer to this question I posed earlier?

What about the chapter in HBP when Snape tells Bellatrix that the information he gave Voldemort led to the death of Emmeline Vance? Was he lying about that, or did he really cause the death of an innocent person in order to maintain his cover? I'm recalling this from memory so I may have forgotten some detail that answers my question.

[luckybacon]

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On a complete tangent, did anyone else think the whole subject of Potions was underrated throughout? I mean, its basically cooking, only easier, right? Every time anyone was shown to [censored] it up, its because they forgot something, or read a line wrong; its not like they couldn't tell how long a rare steak needs versus a medium-rare.

But at the same time, potions seemed to be able to do things that would be comparatively really hard for a [censored] wizard to do, like Polyjuice or Felix or whatever. It just seemed to me that if someone said, "You can be a second year and make a potion that will disguise you as another person, or you can study transifguration for decades and maybe never achieve the same result," I'd be think, "Sweet! Potions it is!"

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i think the more complex potions had a lot more downside to them also. I remember reading one potion if not made properly could kill you. Dont remember which potion that is. I dont think there were any risks that big in transfiguration