KQ on button - possible spaz villain

[One Outer]

The idea that you can't fold out flush draws and open enders has come up in a post I saw somewhere before but can't find right now. I have no idea where this comes from (online)? I'm routinely seeing players dump open enders and non-nut flush draws in live play when facing two cold on the turn. The live players are terrified of this. I wouldn't be doing it if I hadn't seen it work a lot.

[DUI]

1 outer,

I think there are more hands that you will beat here than you'll lose to, especially if this is his posting hand. Granted, he could have walked into a set on his post/limp reraise, but I think he would PFR right out initially on his first action with 9s, Js or Qs. AA for a limp/RR is a possibility, and it's not like I've never seen someone post or straddle and then wakeup with the magic AA.

Personally, I would raise his donk bet on the end in this situation. When he doesn't play back after you on the turn, it feels to me like he is protecting specifically one pair (either overpair or a OE + midpair), plus you didn't give any hint of sophistication for this player. Even with no reads, you would see something that may make you think he knows where he is at with you. So I think tricky or Fancy Play at that point.

I believe you're good here. Putting him as good as AA, and as weak as a busted Ten w/pair. Stone bluff also fits.



DUI

[PokerJans]

Fold because you are losing here everytime...

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
use your position, call down and bet if checked to.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is something that i dont see people in this forum do enough of.

position is a powerful tool in hold em. most people on ssl i'm sure are aware that they have to play tighter in EP than in LP, for fear of a raise behind them. most people also probably know that they can call with weaker draws on the flop and turn when "closing the action" than when 2nd to act, again for fear of a raise behind.

what i'm not sure people understand is that LP gives you the advantage of not being "forced" to raise. when you are in LP, often, you dont have to worry about raising to protect your hand in large pots and to avoid giving free cards on later streets. thus you can freely call with many hands if you suspect you're beaten, or you want to re-evaluate your hand on a later street.

this hand is an ok example (although not perfect because there's a person to act behind you on the turn). because you have position on the bettor and his line is funny, you can simply call down (a bet still goes in) and see what he does on the river.

[BubbleMint]

As played a river raise is not terrible.

Two pair, sets and straights were 3 betting the turn given the flop action.

However, the standard line for me is to call down from his turn lead.

[One Outer]

I'm bumping this because I have an ancillary question. The reason I raised the turn in this hand was to try and fold out a straight or flush draw. Now, it may have worked but I don't feel good about it. I thought at the time the concept at work here was big pot/small pot but now I'm not so sure. If that is why I'm raising the turn in this hand am I misapplying big pot/small pot?

[Tugg]

I was reviewing the turn hand quizzes in SSHE and hand #8 is a kind of similiar hand and says "We have had several examples where you have had a marginal, vunerable,one pair hand and we have advocated raising the turn.This is a critical play that most small stakes players miss" I won't go on because I know you have the book, but it seems to stress that we don't have to be good even close to %50 of the time, and multiway in large pots to be aggressive and protect your equity. This play also interests me as I feel playing the turn is my weakest street.

[One Outer]

[ QUOTE ]
I was reviewing the turn hand quizzes in SSHE and hand #8 is a kind of similiar hand and says "We have had several examples where you have had a marginal, vunerable,one pair hand and we have advocated raising the turn.This is a critical play that most small stakes players miss" I won't go on because I know you have the book, but it seems to stress that we don't have to be good even close to %50 of the time, and multiway in large pots to be aggressive and protect your equity. This play also interests me as I feel playing the turn is my weakest street.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I wouldn't mind if you went on. I don't actually have the book and I haven't read it. I graduate from college at the end of the semester and I put reading it on the backburner until then. And if I had a copy around it would totally distract me.

[Tugg]

The hand goes like this. You have AhQh on the button. 4 limpers,you raise, BB and limpers call(12.5)sb. Flop is QsTs7h.The BB bets,1st limper calls,the 2nd one raises.the next limper cold calls.You call and everyone else does (11 BBs).The Turn is 3c. Its checked to the flop raiser who bets, the next player calls. Then it says you should raise .

The players and action in this example are a bit different, which I know can change everything, but the flop texture and turn blank seem similiar. Throughout these examples it stresses to protect vunerable hands in multiway pots with a raise.to "play aggressively and proctect your equity" and that a raise may cost you a bet or two, but not protecting your vunerable hand may cost you the pot.

I don't know if any of this specifically helps your hand.The consensus seems to be to call down from the turn and heads up I agree.But this players play is quite strange and it may be worthwhile to invest the extra bet in order to protect your equity and get heads up.

[leo doc]

"I'm routinely seeing players dump open enders and non-nut flush draws in live play when facing two cold on the turn."

And they're doing this (i.e., folding) getting 14.5:2? (And yes, I realize that there's a possibity of a 3-bet behind them.) I don't get to play live as much as I'd like, but I've watched a bunch of donks call 3 in this situation.