High draw hand

[MRBAA]

Live game, tight solid player opens in first position for $5, loose player calls, folded to me and I make it $10 to go with trip 8s. Both call. Pot is $35.

Both opponents draw one, I draw two and pick up a pair of tens for eights full.

Tight solid player opened and is first to act. He bets the max, $10 and loose player (who is not insane and has played a lot more draw than I) makes it $20 and I...

[pokerponcho]

I'd re-raise with the full-house. The solid player could have a straight, a flush, a lower full-house. All of those pat hands you beat. It's hard seeing him not having a pat hand here. If you don't think he was drawing to a straight or a flush then just calling might be better, but I don't think so.

But even if you suspect that he has a full-house and you just call, he will almost certainly re-raise and your hand is too good to lay down. So re-raise yourself since eights-full is better than an average full-house and your opponent won't know for certain whether or not you have quads since you drew two cards. It's possible he'll read you for a boat or quads and just call with jacks-full.

As for the fish, he probably has a straight or a flush. I'd stick in one more raise for value. You win more money when your ahead of the tight/solid guy, and you lose the same amount when you are behind him (since he would re-raise you anyways). Hopefully, re-raising will freeze him into a call if he does have a boat that beats yours.

Were you cold-decked this hand?

[SoCalPat]

[ QUOTE ]
Were you cold-decked this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course he was. How else could someone post a question where the answer is so obvious?

To the original poster: You gotta put in a raise here. I think dealt quads is out of the question -- the TSP would've raised or reraised you pre-swap, and he probably has a smaller boat, having come in with a small two pair or smaller trips.

The post-swap raiser made his straight or flush draw. You've got to punish him.

Honestly, I think your hand is good, but then again, you posted a question that has such an obvious answer, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if TSP turned up small quads -- having drawn the case 2-7.

[2461Badugi]

This seems like the spot to go for an overcall if there ever was one.

[MRBAA]

I just smooth called and mhwg against two ace high flushes. My thinking was that the solid player would fold if I three bet unless he had a bigger full/quads, the loose player would just call so I make the same when I'm ahead and lose more when I'm behind. After the hand, though, no one could believe I didn't three bet.

[bigpooch]

Let's say you are only in danger by being beat by the
postdraw bettor (it's true that the second player could have
drawn to a straight flush and connected, but that's very
unlikely). It's true he could have limped in with quads
and did't want to blow the third party out by smooth calling
even though arguably he may make more in the long run by
3-betting predraw (and sometimes he may make less depending
on the type of players he is facing). So, let's say that
the probability that the first player has you beat is p
and when he does, he will put in as many as four bets
(assuming that the site only allows up to 4 bets per round).

If you cold call, you are almost certainly going to get
called by the bettor, so you will likely gain 4 big bets on
the end by just calling. If you are beat by the bettor, he
will almost certainly make it 3 bets and you will call and
lose an extra bet. Because you drew two and the bettor
was solid, he probably won't 3-bet you with less than a good
full house, even though he probably shouldn't even do so
theoretically. So, by calling, your gain on the last
betting round is +4(1-p)-3p = 4-7p big bets.

If you raise, there is a good chance the first player will
lay down unless he has better than a flush; in fact, a good
player probably would lay down because it's extremely
unlikely you don't have a flush beat given the action. By
drawing two and raising, you are representing a hand that
improved from trips, so approximately 2/5 of the time, you
should have quads (assuming you really did start with trips)
so it doesn't make sense to even pay off with threes full
(as it can only beat deuces full).

In any case, say the bettor will call with a frequency of x
even when he is beat. On the other hand, if you are beat,
you'll be putting in the fourth bet, so your gain is now
+4(1-p)-4p+2x = +4-8p+2x big bets.

The difference is (2x-p).

So, you should raise if you think p<x/2, or the likelihood
of the bettor having you beat is less than half of the
frequency that he will call two more bets cold with a worse
hand. I think it's quite unlikely that he will call with a
worse hand if he is any sort of player. In any case, it
simply depends on what kind of opponent the orignal bettor
is, but I don't believe your play was a mistake from the
information given.

On the other hand, if the original bettor was good enough to
lay down a flush if you simply cold call here, you should
raise since you won't even be getting that extra bet from
the original bettor, but you won't find too many players
that will fit that description online.

[Andy B]

What are you doing in here? What am I doing in here? Why am I responding to a draw thread?

Draw one. I think going for the over-call on the end is probably best.

[MRBAA]

Why would you draw one here after raising in last position, and last to act on the next round?