Limit 5 Card Draw

[Frond]

Okay, so I played my very first session last night online of .50-1 L5CD and loved it. Probably helped that I doubled up in about an hour, but on the surface, there seems to be more to the game than I had previouisly thought. I am new to the game so any strategy tips would be helpful. Here are some of my thoughts, please correct me if I am way off:

Starting hands: In genreal, I stuck to pairs of T's or higher, but position seemed important like in any game. I also obv. played 2 pairs, sets and I did play some 4 flush and 4 str8s but they seem like big longshots to play usually. I can see how really high card 3 flsuh and str8s might be a bit more playable for their poss. of pairing a high card as in stud. Small pairs I stayed away from.

Blinds: Ended up mucking a lot in both with a marg hand and with a riase etc. Not sure how to play the blinds in this game

Raising PD-I did this with bigger pairs and some 2 pairs and sets etc. I tried to mix it up to not be too obvious though.

Discards-Very important to keep track of who is dissing how many cards.

Bluffing-Def possible in this game, esp in LP at times.

Breaking up 5 card hands: I did this a few times when I got a dealt boat. Is this standard? Seems like if you stand pat that it is way too obv. of what you may have

Seems like there is a lot of strategy in htis game and I assume a lot more in Pot limit and NL as well.

THoughts?

[Tom Bayes]

You should check out the FAQ for a link to Mike Wiesenberg's articles from CardPlayer on draw and also search for draw posts here, especially by bigpooch (who disagrees with some of Wiesenberg's recommendations).

Briefly:
Starting Hands: Play very tight from early position, opening up your standards as you approach the button. Hands like TT/JJ/QQ are not good to play in early position. In a 6-seated game, you will almost never get proper pot odds to play come hands except from the blinds. Some of your better draws with other possible outs are playable in the right circumstances, as you indicate. If no one is in the pot yet, raise or fold. Don't open-limp.

Blinds: Blind defense is tricky, as you'll often be a much bigger underdog in draw than in holdem. You have to play the opponent here, as some people will try to steal blinds with just about anything and others play just as tight from the button as they do from UTG. If your opponents give you free shots to outdraw them, take it. If you are getting the odds with a come hand, take it.

Raising PD: Is PD pre-draw or post-draw?

Discards: Yep. Figure out who likes to false-card. Figure out who always plays a certain hand the same way and who changes it up. Don't be the guy who limp/draw 2 always means low pair w/Ace kicker and raise/draw 2 always means trips.

Bluffing: This is very opponent-dependent. Some people are easy to bluff, some are impossible.

Breaking boats: I never do this. Maybe it's a decent risk when you have very high trips, but I don't think I like this. Too many opponents are happy to call raises and draw 1 to straights/flushes and we want to punish them when they hit!

If you want to get more action on your pat hands, get caught bluffing (or show a successful bluff) a time or two [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I do like to try to improve my kicker when I am dealt quads, though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Big Limpin]

il add to the breaking boats...
first, i havent done this before, im very new to this game, but i can see the merits in the right situation:
you are LP/button, so you can see what they discard. if they draw 1, forgetaboutit, stay pat. but if they draw 3, then you might want to break it for trips IF its high trips, but VERY high, cause their pair is pretty dcent too. in fact, [censored] that! stay pat all the time. those asshats make wtflol calls (or even bet into you!) entirely too often to risk a catastrophe. Take the guarenteed win.

[Frond]

Thanks guys. PD was Pre Draw. I like the raise or fold thing a lot. Makes good sense. That can pertain to a lot of games I guess as well. Trying figure out what high pairs and or hands to raise pre draw with but I will assume that J's or higher?

Boats-I got dealt a few like I said. Still on the fence though if they should be broken up or not. One time I raised Pre-Draw with one and I got 2 callers. One guy drew only one card and I stood pat. He called my last bet which surprsied me a lot. It was micro level .50-1 though so it can be expected. One other time I broke one up and completed my quad which was just great and lucky. I also got a dealt flush that got some action. I was trying to mix it up when I got good starting hands like 2 pairs and sets. I think in 5 draw staying very unpredictable is good. At this low limit though deception is not always picked up on it seems. I do have to remind myself to not go for the str8s and flushes like I would do at times in stud when you have 3 cards to come(live draws that is) to make your hand.

Funny, but my only other experience with 5 card draw was playing when I was a wee lad with my family. I will say that having experience playing various other forms of HE, Stud and Omaha made it a lot easier to jump into a new game than just jumping in knowing only one poker game.

What a great game. Reminded of me when I first played horse and loved the mix of games.

[Matt Ruff]

Re: breaking boats, if your opponents are smart enough that you need to be that tricky, you should probably change tables.

[Frond]

Good point there Matt. Raise them pre draw I assume always or mix it up? Prob. not a big issue because last night's session was an abnormal amount of dealt boats anyways.

Is pot limit and NL play a lot differntly? I assume more room for bluffing in those formats?

[Fiasco]

you basically never want to break up your pat hands. disguising your hand normally takes one of two forms.
1) Drawing one card to trips. Not only does this disguise your trips, but it also makes all of your one card draws look scarier.
2) Every once in a while playing weaker hands strong or snowing (is it called snowing in 5CD?). This includes pat hand bluffs, threebetting with flush draws or straightflush draws, raising draws or AK first in the SB.

For the most part, youre gonna get payed off on your pat hands no matter what. While there arent a lot of players at the lower levels who try pat hand bluffs, everyone will still call with two pair (and sometimes less). If you find that you arent getting payed off with your pat hands then try bluffing more.

[Matt Ruff]

[ QUOTE ]
Good point there Matt. Raise them pre draw I assume always or mix it up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Any hand I plan to stand pat with I'm happy to cap predraw if I can. Standing pat will often kill the postdraw action, so you want to get money in while your opponents still have hope.

If you want to mix up your play, rather than softplaying monster hands I think it's better to do stuff like 3-bet jacks up, stand pat, and then bet out postdraw. You'll win a lot of hands uncontested this way, you have showdown value if somebody decides to look you up with their own two pair, and when you eventually run into aces up or trips, attentive players will notice that you stood pat with two pair and become more likely to give you action next time you've got a pat flush.

But really, I think you're best off looking for a table full of players who'll call pat hands with a pair of fives.

[SoCalPat]

[ QUOTE ]
I think in 5 draw staying very unpredictable is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Proper use of position is far more important for newcomers to 5CD than staying unpredictable. Especially with the hands you're using to raise-open.

Get rid of your hold em mindset that tells you a pair of jacks or queens is good for a raise from any position.

You will break a boat some day, and someone will hit their 75-1 shot to beat you. When someone does that to me, I want the second-guessing of my play out of the equation. In short, don't do stupid [censored] like breaking up full houses. You'll still get paid off a good portion of the time anyway.

[TomTom]

[ QUOTE ]
Get rid of your hold em mindset that tells you a pair of jacks or queens is good for a raise from any position.

[/ QUOTE ]

First in, 6-max, I make a lot of profit from raising JJ and up as I either take down the blinds or get called, then get folded to post draw.

Hey, I thought I was the one who just discovered 5-card draw yesterday. I was browsing around PS and found the game and dove in (.50/1). It’s a very soft game. I found a Wiesenberg strategy article early on so I had sort of a clue. My play is basically pump decent pairs/trips PD and if unimproved go passive post draw (I’m still learning how to read hands). I’m having a decent return too. Today played some PL and then some 1/2 and my beginner’s luck is still holding.

Is there any poker tracker like software out there for this game?