T9s - OE on flop; FD on Turn; semi-bluff?

[Hoi Polloi]

Don't know villain. Seems not insane after a couple of orbits. Does anyone c/r the turn with all these draws and trip 8s to represent?

10/20 Hold'em (5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.16 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero?

[UtzChips]

What's wrong with betting out on the Flop and then if raised, just check/calling the Turn, but if just called on the Flop, betting out again on the Turn?

[Hoi Polloi]

Do you think your line is better than c/r on flop and leading turn? If so, please explain.

[jstill]

its not better to donk utz, u seem to do it a ton.

altho there are spots where its true donking costs u less to bluff, its also true that u should often let him stick in his cb and get that extra bet if enough of his range is either folding to the flop cr or folding on a blank turn.

the main issue tho is u need to play ur semi-bluffs and real hands the same. Theres an element of verisimilitude that will be absent from ur game which will harm u greatly if u either play good smart opponents ( this probably wont be true on soft sites at lower limits) or play even just ok opponents regularly, they will catch on eventually that ur donking air and draws and cr'ing TP or better on the flop. I just cr both often and in the right spots for it as much as possible and poker (if playing optimally) has a nice way of providing a balance to ur game that will always keep ur opponents guessing and not clued in to what u actually have which hand. Ur betting patterns cant mean one thing tho in general or u will be so easy to adjust to when u get to the tougher short handed games. Maybe u donk good hands too for balance but id prefer to cr both, theres way too many times players cb total air (whenver they have it and u ck to them) to pass up on letting them make those mistakes both when u have a real hand or want to steal the pot. from a FTOP standpoint donking means u win less money in each pot whether u steal it or win at showdown and probably IMO put in more bets behind than ahead.

satisfy shania also

as to the hand, its player dependent as u know, some players would bet calldown A hi here with the bdfd coming out but based on ur small read id say with ur equity against his range and the range of hands hes liable to bet fold here (AK AQ, other overs if hed bet them here) not 55 or 66 on this turn but 33 or 22 will fold, cr'ing the turn will be the line that will net u the most money in the long run vs ck calling, ck folding UI. Ur line does rep 8x 77 or 65 well enough also that it doesnt look like total BS, so that combined with the range of hands hes likely to play this way and fold plus ur equity make it a cr i think (unless ud always cr any of those hands on the flop, even still tho).

I think the real question is do we have to fire the river UI if we cr, Im guessing yes getting 7:1 for any time he has JT J9 or overs with a spade draw or maybe finds a fold with A5 A6 or whatever.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

I would check/raise the turn. Your line may look like BS, but thats ok. IMO, you will still induce a better hand to fold often enough to more than cover the cost of this play.

[danzasmack]

[ QUOTE ]
I would check/raise the turn. Your line may look like BS, but thats ok. IMO, you will still induce a better hand to fold often enough to more than cover the cost of this play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assume villain is like 35/25 and you fire 2x here, are you ever folding to a c/r?

This is like a separate question because this [censored] c/r never works for me lol

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would check/raise the turn. Your line may look like BS, but thats ok. IMO, you will still induce a better hand to fold often enough to more than cover the cost of this play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assume villain is like 35/25 and you fire 2x here, are you ever folding to a c/r?

This is like a separate question because this [censored] c/r never works for me lol

[/ QUOTE ]

I personally will get caught with Qx/Jx often enough to get pwned here.

[kiddo]

good post, what good hands do u check twice out of position, since u want to checkraise this draw and want to balance ur play?

I would bet river if he called turn, but this flop is so great and I dont want to check turn if I hit fearing checking behind so attack flop would be my normal play

Checkraise flop, and if turn is another spade giving us a superdraw, checkraise again (him checking behind is fine, him calling a checkraise is also fine... always bet river fast if he checks behind), otherwise, just bet turn

[WillyT]

agreed 100% kiddo. but let's stop giving out awesome lines yo! :P

[beset]

[ QUOTE ]

Checkraise flop, and if turn is another spade giving us a superdraw, checkraise again (him checking behind is fine, him calling a checkraise is also fine... always bet river fast if he checks behind), otherwise, just bet turn

[/ QUOTE ]

awesome line