10/20 - AA - turn pairs Q; ABC player donks

[danzasmack]

There can def. be extreme examples where folding is the only correct play but as i mentioned, only OP can know that. So I would say there is no hand worth discussing involving a read that would make folding the right play.

[Xellos]

This is a 66/77/A5s a lot more than it's a Queen I think. My assumption on their thought process is "ME SEE TWO QUEEN HE NO HAVE QUEEN ME BET PAIR". Folding here is absurd. Depending on the opponent I'm sometimes just calling down, sometimes raising the turn and betting the river, sometimes calling the turn and raising the river. I don't know what percent of the time I use these lines, I do know that I fold here 0% of the time.

[Hoi Polloi]

That's fair. I have been too defensive.

Thanks for the effort to explain this thoughtfully.

[Hoi Polloi]

[ QUOTE ]
There can def. be extreme examples where folding is the only correct play but as i mentioned, only OP can know that. So I would say there is no hand worth discussing involving a read that would make folding the right play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I was mistaken to post this hand given my conviction that the play I made was correct. I appreciate everyone's willingness to comment and I apologize for any wasted time or bafflement at my defense of my play.

[Michael Davis]

Hoi Polloi,

In your description you said he was an ABC player, but he didn't make any play on the flop. Can he have a Q then? From an ABC player, this is usually a small pair that doesn't want to give a free card and now realizes that you are less likely to have anything when the top card pairs.

I have made this fold. So have most on this forum. But as a standard play it is very bad, and any situation that arises from a razorthin specific read (which this, IMO, did not) shouldn't be posted as it doesn't really help us figure out the best way to play in common situations.

-Michael

[luckyharr]

I don't think I've ever folded Aces when there wasn't at least one raise postflop, and it typically takes more than one raise to get me to lay down. I've seen passive players bet as little as ace high on that turn. The second queen makes it more likely that your aces are no good, but certainly not more than 5/6 times.

[mmcd]

I know you said the guy was on the passive side, but if he's at all decent, he'd have to c/r your flop bet with a vulnerable top-pair and 3 other players in between.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Doyle's Room 10/20 Limit Hold'em (6-max)

SB plays a solid but passive game. Thinks, can raise pre-flop and fold flop, doesn't make moves, probably somewhere around breakeven +/-.

I'm running bad (what else is new) but have shown down strong hands. I've folded a few hands I raised pre-flop on the flop. I've checked behind UI OCs on the turn.

I raise AA in CO after 2 limpers. SB calls and BB calls as do the limpers.

Flop - 5 handed (10 SB) Q52 rainbow
Checked to me, I bet and am called by SB and 1 limper.

Turn - 3 handed (8BB) - Q completes rainbow.
SB bets, limper folds, I fold.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an awfully big fold. I see that your read on him is that he is a bit passive and fairly straightforward postflop. Isn't the standard play from an ABC player to check/raise this turn, or to show some kind of aggression on the flop? You seem sure that he will play his hands straightforwardly; to me, that read means that he will generally fastplay made hands. Given that read, his flop and turn play is not really consistent with top pair/turned trips.

I think that SB will show down 66-TT or a pair of 5s often enough here to make a calldown profitable.

[Hoi Polloi]

[ QUOTE ]
I have made this fold. So have most on this forum. But as a standard play it is very bad, and any situation that arises from a razorthin specific read (which this, IMO, did not) shouldn't be posted as it doesn't really help us figure out the best way to play in common situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, Michael. This post has certainly clarified for me the distinction between useful sample hands and unuseful ones.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[Hoi Polloi]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that SB will show down 66-TT or a pair of 5s often enough here to make a calldown profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I think it is standard to make the call-down here. This hand, as played, is way too read dependent to add value to our discussions as I now understand.

9 times out of 10, at least, I would 3-bet here. But I was strongly convinced that this player's donk bet could mean only one thing. Such feelings, however, don't make good subjects for sample hand posts.

Thanks for your response.