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#12
11-19-2007, 06:15 PM
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Re: Theory: preflop 3x the BB raise from the Button
im pretty sure as carrotsnake is plays very lag, he gets played back at a lot. if you raise a ton of hands and fold, youre losing more by making it 4bb and opposed to 3bb. the more hand you raise, the lower your equity/the more you get reraised, etc. raising smaller negates that. most people know what they're going to do based on the action alone. if theyre in the BB, a 3x or 4xbb raise will typically have the same effect just as a 3.5x or 4x 3bet would.
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#13
11-19-2007, 07:48 PM
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Re: Theory: preflop 3x the BB raise from the Button
so to contrast, with lags in the blinds - bigger, 4-5x is good; tags in blinds - smaller, 2.5-3.5 range.
I like knocking it down to a statement or two. is this about right?
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#14
11-19-2007, 07:58 PM
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Re: Theory: preflop 3x the BB raise from the Button
[ QUOTE ]
so to contrast, with lags in the blinds - bigger, 4-5x is good; tags in blinds - smaller, 2.5-3.5 range. I like knocking it down to a statement or two. is this about right? [/ QUOTE ] i don't really think a good lag is gonna call you anymore than a good tag as calling a lot out of the blinds is not a great play. a lag may 3bet you more often though, so that may change whether you wanna 3x it or 4x it. i noted in my post on this topic (there is a linky above) that you can usually call just for set value if you like against a 3bet when you 3x it. note: i'm not saying you should set mine against a lag here cos his range will be too wide to pay you off much, but i'm just noting for arguments sake
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#15
11-19-2007, 08:49 PM
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Re: Theory: preflop 3x the BB raise from the Button
[ QUOTE ]
i noted in my post on this topic (there is a linky above) that you can usually call just for set value if you like against a 3bet when you 3x it. [/ QUOTE ] IDK dude, you are usually too shallow anyway in 100BB games. I mean most regs still 3-bet enough to deny you odds. Maybe this is more applicable to PL.
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#17
11-19-2007, 09:47 PM
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Re: Theory: preflop 3x the BB raise from the Button
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i noted in my post on this topic (there is a linky above) that you can usually call just for set value if you like against a 3bet when you 3x it. [/ QUOTE ] IDK dude, you are usually too shallow anyway in 100BB games. I mean most regs still 3-bet enough to deny you odds. Maybe this is more applicable to PL. [/ QUOTE ] i did the calculations in that other post, but you need to stack him something like 6.5% to breakeven when you open 3x typically, so in theory you have the odds to only setmine. not saying it is the best move, but it should be +EV
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#18
11-19-2007, 09:55 PM
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Re: Theory: preflop 3x the BB raise from the Button
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i noted in my post on this topic (there is a linky above) that you can usually call just for set value if you like against a 3bet when you 3x it. [/ QUOTE ] IDK dude, you are usually too shallow anyway in 100BB games. I mean most regs still 3-bet enough to deny you odds. Maybe this is more applicable to PL. [/ QUOTE ] i did the calculations in that other post, but you need to stack him something like 6.5% to breakeven when you open 3x typically, so in theory you have the odds to only setmine. not saying it is the best move, but it should be +EV [/ QUOTE ] No, what I'm saying is Villains will typically pop it to 13x-14x anyway because of 1.) laziness/habit and 2.) to deny you set odds. But maybe your games play differently.
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#19
11-19-2007, 11:34 PM
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Re: Theory: preflop 3x the BB raise from the Button
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i noted in my post on this topic (there is a linky above) that you can usually call just for set value if you like against a 3bet when you 3x it. [/ QUOTE ] IDK dude, you are usually too shallow anyway in 100BB games. I mean most regs still 3-bet enough to deny you odds. Maybe this is more applicable to PL. [/ QUOTE ] i did the calculations in that other post, but you need to stack him something like 6.5% to breakeven when you open 3x typically, so in theory you have the odds to only setmine. not saying it is the best move, but it should be +EV [/ QUOTE ] No, what I'm saying is Villains will typically pop it to 13x-14x anyway because of 1.) laziness/habit and 2.) to deny you set odds. But maybe your games play differently. [/ QUOTE ] lol, well in that case you are right. damn those lazy oafs
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#20
11-20-2007, 12:19 AM
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Re: Theory: preflop 3x the BB raise from the Button
[ QUOTE ]
im pretty sure as carrotsnake is plays very lag, he gets played back at a lot. if you raise a ton of hands and fold, youre losing more by making it 4bb and opposed to 3bb. the more hand you raise, the lower your equity/the more you get reraised, etc. raising smaller negates that. most people know what they're going to do based on the action alone. if theyre in the BB, a 3x or 4xbb raise will typically have the same effect just as a 3.5x or 4x 3bet would. [/ QUOTE ] I think it is ok to raise smaller on the button occasionally, especially with a laggy style like carrotsnake has. It depends on what you want to achive with your raise. Another small factor is that this varying your bet size could confuse your opponent. You raise 4xbb from early position. On the button vs the right opponents you only raise to 3xbb. They may deduce that this has something to do with your handstrength and not with your position. In a way they are right, your range of hands are obviously much bigger on the button than in early position. If the thight opponents in the blinds dont adjust their calling range and 3betting range you are stealing their blinds for less risk. A lot of the value from these guys is just stealing their blinds. If the thight opponents adjust since they fell that you are running over them with theese tiny raises, you might get them to overadjust and get into spots where they feel uncomfortable, in which case you also gain.
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