3/6 B&M, AA vs a couple of maniacs

[mikeca]

I had just gotten seated at this table. This was only my second hand. Didn’t have any good reads on anyone, but if the couple of hands I have seen are typical there seemed to be some very aggressive/maniac players at this table, two of which were involved in this hand.

I have A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the HJ.

Two limpers to me, I raise, CO folds, button calls, SB calls, BB folds, both limpers call

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5 players, 10 SB (after rake)

SB checks, early limper bets, player to my right raises, I call(?????), button calls, SB folds, early limper 3 bets, player to my right folds, I call (?????), button caps it, early limper calls, I call.

I thought I played this way to passively, but I did not like the flop. It was too coordinated. The button and early limper both looked like super aggressive/maniac type players base on the 2 or 3 hands I had seen.

Turn: [5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3 players, 12.5 BB

Limper checks, I check (???), button bets, early limper calls, I call(???)

River: [5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3 players, 15.5 BB

Limper checks, I check(???), button checks.

[Niediam]

Wow. Passive play is poo. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

3bet the flop and go from there.

[KitCloudkicker]

if these guys are really maniacs you should have been betting/raising every street. looks like you missed out on a lot of value here.

i understand the point about the flop being coordinated. however, you should have been more aggressive on that turn card, as the 7 is an excellent card for you.

[James.]

i think checkraising the field on the turn would be pretty sweet.

[Little Wing]

I raise the flop and bet out on the turn.

[youlosepork]

either 3 bet flop or call 2 bets on flop and raise after the bet and call

[mikeca]

[ QUOTE ]
i think checkraising the field on the turn would be pretty sweet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thinking about the play of this hand, I agree. The button’s flop line made no sense. He cold called the raise from the player to my right and then capped the three bet from the early limper. This should have told me he didn’t have a strong made hand. The early limper’s check/call of the turn also should have told me he was on a draw.

The question I always have in these cases is, if I had check raised the turn, what would I do if the button three bet?

[jesse8888]

If you check/raise the turn and get three-bet I think you just go into call-down mode.

It's hard to say if you'd have been able to check/raise the turn if you'd 3 bet the flop. My standard line here would have been to go to war on the flop, and continue warring on the turn until it went to about 3 bets.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
The question I always have in these cases is, if I had check raised the turn, what would I do if the button three bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

first off, i have a bad habit of reading titles and skimming details in the body of the post. i didn't see that this was mostly a "readless" hand. i thought we had maniacs in action and thought they were the villains in the hand.

the beauty of the c/r is you get max value, while being able to fold to a 3bet against most typical opponents. if the opponent that 3bets is a maniac, it's probably closer to a cap than a fold. that said, i would call down(if it's the maniac, mind you).

[mikeca]

After a few more hands I figured out that the button was the real maniac at the table. He was not an ATC maniac. He knew something about poker. He was just way overplaying any piece of the flop or any draw, and trying to push other people out of the pot. He seemed to have a thing with certain other players at the table too. If one of them raised, he would almost always re-raise. I think they had picked up on this and were using it to get the button to put lots of money in the pot with weak hands or draws. The early limper was actually pretty TAGish, after the button busted out of the game. Perhaps there had been some bad beats or something that had set the button off.

It turned out both the button and the early limper were on club flush draws. The early limper had the A8 of clubs, which also gave him top pair. The button had KT of clubs. My aces were good.

Both the button and early limper were building the pot on strong flush draws that didn’t get there. The early limper also had top pair, and figured his hand might be good against the button even if the flush didn’t come.