25NL getting RR'ed alot PF by good player

FreshMeat · #1 10-20-2007, 01:13 AM

I keep getting RR'ed pf by this certain player (150hands 20/11/1). the first two times it happened i just let the hand go, but became suspicious. the third time it happened i decided to let my hand go as well but i got lucky and a shortstack went all in and i got to see his hand. this is what happened.

Villian is Button.

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $41.55
UTG: $20.30
Hero (UTG+1): $27.65
MP1: $9.55
MP2: $24.75
CO: $28.80
BTN: $21.75
SB: $6.40

Pre-Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG+1)
UTG folds, Hero raises to $1, MP1 calls $1, 2 folds, BTN raises to $4, 3 folds, MP1 raises to $9.55 and is All-In, BTN calls $5.55

Flop: ($20.45) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Turn: ($20.45) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($20.45) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $20.45 Pot ($1 Rake)
MP1 showed A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a pair of Kings) and LOST (-$9.55 NET)
BTN showed 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (two pair, Kings and Sevens) and WON $19.45 (+$9.90 NET)

I thought for sure because he had to show his hand that he wouldnt RR me light again. I raised a few more times and nothing. then some hands later this came up.

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

SB: $30.70
BB: $10.25
UTG: $22.40
UTG+1: $18.15
UTG+2: $40.25
MP1: $15.80
Hero (MP2): $40
CO: $25
BTN: $27.60

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP2)
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, CO folds, BTN raises to $3.50, 5 folds, Hero calls $2.25

Flop: ($8.10) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5, Hero calls $5

Turn: ($18.10) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $19.10 and is All-In, Hero calls $19.10

River: ($56.30) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $56.30 Pot ($2.75 Rake)
Hero showed J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a full house, Jacks full of Fours) and WON $53.55 (+$25.95 NET)
BTN mucked A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and LOST (-$27.60 NET)

I floated on flop and planned to fold on turn if he fired again. unfortunately for him i caught the boat.

Questions:

1) if you suspect someone is RR'ing you light is it a big deal to just let the hand go? or should you try and take a stand somewhere with a marginal hand?

2) Should you wait for proof that someone is playing back against you and not just getting lucky before making a stand?

3) Is it good practice to do what villian does in NL25, that is RR'ing until you get played back at, then switching gears? not strategy wise but money wise... I mean, would most people just burn up chips doing this all the time or would it be profitable? and if so how profitable? NL25.

This player is obviously goot for NL25 because he some considerable cash off of me without ever having to see a flop, as well he might have stacked me more often when he really had a hand. If you were this player PM me with your nickname. I would like to talk shop.

toymach776 · #2 10-20-2007, 02:19 AM

I think that you played the hand well and I like that you call the flop already thinking ahead to the fact that you will fold to any big turn bet. Considering that he is 3 betting fairly lightly (and assuming that he still is at this point), you should be well ahead of his range here. The problem is that you are out of position and when you check to him and he fires again you have a difficult OOP decision and will probably be forced to fold when you may have the best hand. There is a chance that he will check behind on turn, giving up a missed hand or to take a pot control line and you may get a cheap showdown. Does he give up hands when his cbets dont work? nice catch on the turn.

1) a good player like this will be 3betting you in position a lot, making your life much harder. Given this fact, I am not taking a stand with marginal hands very often. If I were to find myself at a table with a player like this on my left, I would find another place to play. At 25NL, there are too many bad players to mess around with this guy.

2)absolutely.

3)You have to be a reasonably good player in general to take a LAG approach to the game. If you are good enough, then I believe that such a strategy is quite profitable at 25NL. I think that you need to learn to be a good TAG before you can become a good LAG.

jlp_2908 · #3 10-20-2007, 03:11 AM

People think they should play a larger range of hands, but I think they should 3-bet more I've been using this strategy at 10nl and it has paid off, mainly because you make 10-20bbs everytime your c-bet works....which is often. And when your AK or whatever hits you usually get paid pretty good

jlp_2908 · #4 10-20-2007, 03:12 AM

And just to add, hardly anyone tries to float you when you 3bet...if they call, they usually have something.

crazymoose · #5 10-20-2007, 05:42 AM

1. If someone is 3-betting me light I tend to tighten my range somewhat so it is mostly made of hands that can call his 3-bet and get money in on the flop. If we are both deep this includes hands like 87s (once in a while).

2. 3-betting is not that common at low level FR in my experience. It is fairly easy to tell if they are doing it light. So you don't need to see a hand go to showdown really, you just need to see them do it more than a few times.

3. I tend to only 3-bet light against people who are making some kind of steal raise or against people with a wide opening range. Used against the right villains/in the right spots, it's a good way to pick up pots.

CaptVimes · #6 10-20-2007, 07:09 AM

fresh,

Have you been really loose or really tight? I mean did you give him a reason to 3-bet light?

WantToLearn · #7 10-20-2007, 07:15 AM

My first idea when I saw the second hand was: "hey, he´s reraising a lot less than before, both absolute and even more so relative to the pot as is so far, I really think he has AA or KK here and does NOT want all the others to fold here!"

[ QUOTE ]
3) Is it good practice to do what villian does in NL25, that is RR'ing until you get played back at, then switching gears?

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to be aware who you are up against. A tight abc regular playing 12 tables at a time is might be apt to fold, plays straightforward, and probably gives you some respect when he sees your say 15/9 stats on the screen.

A bad player who isn´t playing bad purposly is more apt to call your 3-bet, but play fit or fold when you c-bet.

Don´t 3-bet light against weekend gamblers for obvious reasons. Value bet monsters.

TheBad · #8 10-20-2007, 08:36 AM

A regular used to do that to me. He was quite surprised that i made my stand with low suited connectors UTG. I think you must surprise him in a way he remembers.