Very tough spot

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
I would guess Gary will call down a 5bet with any made hand but I am not planning to bet the river unless I improve if I was to 5bet in the first place. Gary's line looks like nothing to me and my line looks like nothing to Gary. I have something so me put dollars into pot.

I really wish he would have 4bet so I would have had to make a decision as to whether I should 5bet or not. I'm beginning to think that he can have 44/55/better than 33 way too often for me to 5bet. I am quite certain that 3betting when he raises is the best play though.

To Gary what my 3bet should look like is either that I have a good hand (unlikely unless I have 44 exactly) or that I know he knows I can have nothing here so I raise again because I can. If I call his 4bet he will know I have some sort of something but he should probably fire the river with a crappy hand again just in case I decide to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hand looks precisely like 44. Its heads up, of course your going to go to town. If he can 4-bet he is either

1) blind as a bat

2) blind as a bat

3) blind as a bat

4) Way ahead the hand your representing, or HAS the hand you are representing.

I admit that option 3 is very likely, but option 4 is pretty tasty.

[mike l.]

"sort of what I was thinking, but I was also thinking about how he sees your hand. What do you think your hand looks like when you 3-bet? When you call the 4-bet? When you 5-bet? Since the pot is large now does Gary call the river now? "

youre overthinking things steven. these two are great players but they love to put in excessive action against other tough players and they see a showdown every time they do this even though they oftentimes have virtually nothing. that's what they are doing here. the extent of their hand reading in these cases is identical: "wow the more this guy raises me the more i know he has nothing either. i raise."

[SA125]

If I'm calling with that hand in EP then I'm betting that flop with it.

I see no sense in 3 betting there when I ch'd the flop, even if I planned to c/r it.

[Michael Davis]

I agree this is a flop bet.

-Michael

[fishboy]

I doubt Gary loves to put in excessive action against tough players. Me thinks Gary is forced to becasue players like howmany and mike l. often raise his big bind super light and threebet him super light. He would love to stay out of each others ways and play against the donkeys. But as long as they keep comin after him, he has to go after them to stay on an even keel. Btw i think howmany thrives on confrontation agaisnt good players. Maybe to test and challenge himself to see how he will do agaisnt them. Gary would rather sit back and play the donkeys and not have to think too hard. Gary thinks its fun to play against homwany for the mind games and stuff. But that its much more profitable to not waste time tangling with each other and just concentrate on attacking the fish.

[HOWMANY]

I think you are 100% right in everything you just said.

[Entity]

A lot of your posts remind me of mike's old posts where he'd post about going 27 bets on a 862 flop with JJ against a guy who 3bet him preflop and, no matter what anyone said, he was correct in doing so. Basically hands like these don't have much of a purpose in being posted because, yeah, you had a read and you went with it at the time and I guess the read trumps any poker sense that we could actually contribute to the thread-- it almost feels like you're posting entirely in some weird metastyle designed to say things to those you regularly play with but I don't actually think it contributes anything to the forum. Meh.

Rob

[ship it pls]

i disagree, although some of the posts seem out of line playwise, they are great for thought and i know of many who appreciate them (myself included)