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#21
10-07-2006, 10:18 AM
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Re: If \"beating the fish\" is so easy...
fwiw, i cant do it
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#23
10-07-2006, 02:48 PM
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Re: If \"beating the fish\" is so easy...
Be careful about applying the concepts in NLHTAP and other poker books too much at the micro stakes games. The authors didn't write NLTAP assuming that you were playing $25 NL. Much of the advice is assuming that you are facing thinking opponents who play rationally and can fold a good hand in the face of great strength. (Note that the examples in the book are assuming stacks in the thousands of dollars in fairly big games) There's even a specific chapter with a hilighed disclaimer that prefixes it. Don't get cute and you'll be more than fine.
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#25
10-09-2006, 10:37 AM
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Re: If \"beating the fish\" is so easy...
[ QUOTE ]
I believe the OP is referring to NL games. .10/.25 wouldn't be a limit hold'em structure normally. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, I was. I only mentioned Limit because several people have recommened I try it out since I like to play pretty tight.
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#26
10-09-2006, 10:47 AM
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Re: If \"beating the fish\" is so easy...
First, thank you all...There are some great replies in this thread.
I certainly do need to stop paying off the big bets and raises. I tend to think, "There's no WAY this fish has anything!", but forget the fact that just because he is a terrible player, doesn't mean he always has nothing. Also, I am now working on pot sizing. Keeping it small when I have TPTK, say, and blowing it up when I have the nuts or close to it. I DO tend to go too far with marginal hands, even hands that look good like AA on a 4 7 J rainbow board, when it's quite logical that my donkalicious opponent could be playing J4o, and his bets are in fact telling me so. I am slowly starting to realize what a few posters have touched on: It's OK to take a bad beat. As long as I get it in when I'm ahead, I've done what I can do. I tend to be to results oriented, rather than focusing on how I've played. And I should have stated that I TRY to play a solid, tight game. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Keep 'em coming!
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#27
10-10-2006, 12:27 PM
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Re: If \"beating the fish\" is so easy...
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a big bluffer, I don't see the point in micro-limit cash games with 4 or 5 players to most flops. But I DO tend to call a big bet or raise on the river, when my gut tells me I'm beat. [/ QUOTE ] This alone can turn you from a winning to a losing player. Especially if you haven't played that many hands against the villain and don't have a good read on whether he bluffs a lot or not. While you may fold the best hand some of the time, if the villain really is bluffing a lot it won't hurt you in the long run. If he keeps bluffing enough, sooner or later you'll be able to trap him for all his chips. The main point though, is don't make costly decisions until you've got a good read on your opponent. Once you do, it's much easier to know when to lay it down and when to make your stand.
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#28
10-10-2006, 06:50 PM
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Re: If \"beating the fish\" is so easy...
I've been in a similar situation over the past month or so. This is a good advice. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#29
10-13-2006, 11:47 AM
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Re: If \"beating the fish\" is so easy...
I'm not a great player by any means, but I beat the micros NL all the time just by playing super-tight. When I finally do hit a big one, somebody always pays me off. a) lots of people don't notice my tight image and b) new players arrive at the table all the time and eventually walk right into me
Looking back at the time when I was struggling at this level, it's obvious to me in retrospect that I played too many hands and chased too many draws. I thought I was solid, but boredom always biased me into being a little looser than I planned to play. Now if I could just figure out how to play for real so that I could move up. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#30
10-13-2006, 12:54 PM
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Re: If \"beating the fish\" is so easy...
Edit: I didn't realize you were playing NL, so this may or may not apply. I'm almost strictly a limit player.
TPTK is frequently good, at least enough for you to make an overall profit in the long run. Look at it this way. Let's say you've got TPTK and it's bet on the river, there are a couple of callers, and there are 19 bets in the pot. You estimate that you are maybe 15% to win here and decide to call, closing the action. How much money is your call worth? 19*.15 - 1*.85 = +2 You'd have to be behind more than 95% of the time to break even over the long run. 19*.05 - 1*.95 = 0 Top pair top kicker will often be beat in large multiway pots, but as you've seen, you don't need much chance to win to make a call profitable. You probably want to get in cheap with good drawing hands, like those small pocket pairs and suited connector-type hands, particularly in late position. These loose games aren't too tough to beat, but you will suffer some bad-beats along the way. Even if you have the best hand on the flop, your opponents may have many outs (collectively) against your hand. With AK on an A83 rainbow board, an opponent who plays every hand will have an average of about four "outs" against your hand (over the long run). Against three random opponents, your opponents may have up to 12 "outs" to beat you. This is why protecting your hand is so important. It's often not good enough just to play good cards and hit the flop, you'll have to do some more work afterwards.
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