Learning java with no programming language experience, where to start?

[gumpzilla]

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Thing is, I need to learn java, there's no other option [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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Why not? Can you expand?

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I thought he said that he wanted to hook code in to some other application that only supported a "java-like" language.

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Yep, I missed his follow up. My fault.

[Chips Ahoy]

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I thought EDF might be a good place to ask this question, it seems we have a lot of bright individuals here who could give me some good advice.

My day job would be greatly enhanced if I could learn java to code some apps to assist me. Trouble is, I suck at programming. I've never really programmed apart from some basic HTML stuff for some random sites, and some qbasic I did in school many eons ago. Is there any hope for me as a coder? What should I guy like me do to earn this new skill?

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I believe the best way to learn programming is to write programs. Unfortunately there are many programs you would fail if you tried to write. There are some that are trivial to write. It's a pretty steep curve where the project only needs slightly harder requirements to go from trivial to impossible. It's similar to poker game selection, try to pick projects you can do and move up as you gain experience.

I suggest you start by finding a simple program online. Print it out. Then type it in by hand and try to make it run. You will learn quickly this way, especially from your typos. Let google be your teacher when you get stuck.

Typing the program in is the easy part, making it run is harder. You need a way to see what the program is doing when it runs. Copious debug traces (messages the program writes just for the author's benefit, not for the user) are the simple way to see what the program is doing. Using a debugger to examine the program is a valuable skill.

Having a mentor to read the program and provide feedback is awesome. Attention to detail, writing for the reader, handling errors well are skills that take you from beginner to competent.

Always look to simplify your program, reduce the assumptions it makes, don't cut/paste. These are some hints for bigger projects.

The language and toolset you use hardly make a difference. You have a business need for java, so java it is.

Write a simple program, see it run. Write a slightly less simple program. Repeat.

I like reading the books better after you have some programs under your belt.

[milliondollaz]

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They just took it out of GT's CS1101 class about 3 years ago. I think they do two classes of java now for intro, but I'm not sure.

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Pseudo-code FTW?

I've got two sites i've looked at in the past when i tried to learn how to program on my own;

online berkeley video courses

free web programming tutorials - this one has javascript but not java, i don't know the difference

if anyone wants PHP for dummies PM me, i've read the beginning and it looks pretty dope.

[mmbt0ne]

So, if I was going to go about learning this Python stuff with a decent programming background, how should I go about it?

Are the books worth it, or just stick to online tutorials?

[tshort]

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So, if I was going to go about learning this Python stuff with a decent programming background, how should I go about it?

Are the books worth it, or just stick to online tutorials?

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As someone mentioned above:

http://www.diveintopython.org/

I used this free book when first using Python. After using that book, I would use a variety of sources for reference. Most all of them can be found here:

http://www.python.org/doc/

[tshort]

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I'm interested in learning Python, and have started reading up on it, but need to find a good project to work on to learn it (really to get me interested enough to spend my leisure time learning to code rather than reading or drinking etc.)

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The first time I worked with Python it was for a group project in a class (Software Engineering 1). We developed a GUI for modifying configuration files using GTK widgets. There are other similar widget toolkits for creating GUIs, also.

I have used Python for ICM implementations and hand history parsing / data mining. A long time ago I did this to compare ICM to actual results and was attempting to see how ICM deviated from a good player's results. I've used it to simulate $EV in the Party Step tournaments to show they aren't worth playing $/hr wise (unless you started at Step 4).

I guess you just have to be creative to find something which interests you.

[jba]

if you've never really programmed before I would suggest taking an introductory course at a community college.

most books and online reference you're going to find are geared towards people who already understand programming and are trying to pick up a new language.

for example, taken from the first real section of that python page:

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Python has functions like most other languages, but it does not have separate header files like C++ or interface/implementation sections like Pascal. When you need a function, just declare it, like this:


def buildConnectionString(params):

Note that the keyword def starts the function declaration, followed by the function name, followed by the arguments in parentheses. Multiple arguments (not shown here) are separated with commas.


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they are assuming that the reader understands what is meant by the bold words. These words are jargon, they will not be understood easily by non programmers. Granted some of this stuff won't be too tough to figure out through deduction but most material like this isn't intended for OP. He really needs a day of class talking about what a function is before this will really make sense.

[mmbt0ne]

t,

I was gonna play with python to scrape data off of websites and into a db or excel file. Good language for that, or would I be better off to try something else?

[Bostaevski]

http://deitel.com/Books/Java/JavaHow...1/Default.aspx

I personally love the Deitel books. Unlike most books which tend to be written as references, the Deitel books are written as textbooks. They have sample problems and solutions at the end of each chapter.

Also what I like is that there aren't any code snippets. Every single code example is a complete functional program that can be keyed in and compiled.

When it comes to learning a new language I always look to see if there is a Deitel book on it first. After becoming comfortable with the language it's then time to pick up a good solid reference book.

[durron597]

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Don't worry, I'm not making complex programs. The software I use has the option to code using a java based language to create apps you can run within the program.

I don't need to be running projects, just know the rules, the lingo, and common pitfalls while coding.

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I think most people in this thread (self included) missed this post.

What exactly are you doing with your software?