5-10 cent PL OHL on Full Tilt

[The Donator]

I'm going to list four hands from last night. Any help would be appreciated. (I'll let you know my thinking, but don't laugh to much at me if I'm just a fish."

Here I thought I made a good play. I had nut low, but no high, but when third diamond hit on the river I went all-in since I had the A of diamonds and thought I could then bluff that I hit the flush as well and players would fold thinking they'd be quartered. And, yes, the folded.

Full Tilt Poker Game - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Omaha H/L - 2007/11/26
Seat 1: Player1 ($4.45)
Seat 2: Player2 ($10.15)
Seat 3: Player3 ($6.90)
Seat 4: Player4 ($4)
Seat 5: Player5 ($1.50)
Seat 6: HERO ($8.80)
Seat 7: Player7 ($3.30)
Seat 8: Player8 ($10.25)
Seat 9: Player9 ($22.65)
HERO posts the small blind of $0.05
Player7 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [3c Tc 2s Ad]
Player8 calls $0.10
Player9 folds
Player1 folds
Player2 folds
Player3 has 15 seconds left to act
Player3 calls $0.10
Player4 folds
Player5 calls $0.10
HERO calls $0.05
Player7 checks
*** FLOP *** [Qd 5c 8d]
HERO checks
Player7 checks
Player8 checks
Player3 checks
Player5 checks
*** TURN *** [Qd 5c 8d] [6s]
HERO checks
Player7 checks
Player8 checks
Player3 has 15 seconds left to act
Player3 bets $0.40
Player5 calls $0.40
HERO calls $0.40
Player7 folds
Player8 folds
*** RIVER *** [Qd 5c 8d 6s] [3d]
HERO bets $8.30, and is all in
Player3 has 15 seconds left to act
Player3 folds
Player5 folds
Uncalled bet of $8.30 returned to HERO
HERO mucks
HERO wins the pot ($1.55)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.70 | Rake $0.15
Board: [Qd 5c 8d 6s 3d]
Seat 1: Player1 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Player2 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Player3 folded on the River
Seat 4: Player4 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Player5 (button) folded on the River
Seat 6: HERO (small blind) collected ($1.55), mucked
Seat 7: Player7 (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 8: Player8 folded on the Turn
Seat 9: Player9 didn't bet (folded)

[The Donator]

Here's a common occurrance. I get dealt A-2-x-x then flop the A-2. I consider this a worthless hand and fold. Is that correct?



Full Tilt Poker Game #4308192000: Table Stony Ridge - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Omaha H/L - 21:03:33 ET - 2007/11/26
Seat 1: Player1 ($5)
Seat 2: Player2 ($10)
Seat 3: Player3 ($8.55)
Seat 4: Player4 ($13.60)
Seat 5: Player5 ($1.20)
Seat 6: HERO ($9.50)
Seat 7: Player7 ($63.90)
Seat 8: Player8 ($10.10)
Seat 9: Player9 ($21.60)
Player4 posts the small blind of $0.05
Player5 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [5h 7s 2h Ac]
HERO calls $0.10
Player7 folds
Player8 folds
Player9 calls $0.10
Player4 calls $0.05
Player5 checks
*** FLOP *** [Ad 2c Qh]
Player4 checks
Player5 checks
HERO checks
Player9 bets $0.10
Player4 calls $0.10
Player5 folds
HERO folds
*** TURN *** [Ad 2c Qh] [6d]
Player4 has 15 seconds left to act
Player4 checks
Player9 has 15 seconds left to act
Player9 bets $1.90
Player4 folds
Uncalled bet of $1.90 returned to Player7
Player9 mucks
Player9 wins the pot ($0.55)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.60 | Rake $0.05
Board: [Ad 2c Qh 6d]
Seat 1: Player1 is sitting out
Seat 2: Player2 is sitting out
Seat 3: Player3 is sitting out
Seat 4: Player4 (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 5: Player5 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: HERO folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Player7 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Player8 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Player9 (button) collected ($0.55), mucked

[The Donator]

I'm sure I totally misplayed this hand, but who knows. This was a very aggressive table. I get dealt a fantastic hand in early position, so I called with the intention of going all-in after a raise, which was happening pretty much every hand. Of course, nobody raises and I get stuck in the mud.

Full Tilt Poker Game $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Omaha H/L - ET - 2007/11/26
Seat 1: Player1 ($4.10)
Seat 2: HERO ($9.30)
Seat 3: Player3 ($4.30)
Seat 4: Player4 ($9.20)
Seat 5: Player5 ($10)
Seat 6: Player6 ($4.85)
Seat 7: Player7 ($12.25)
Seat 8: Player8 ($16.55)
Seat 9: Player9 ($10)
Player3 posts the small blind of $0.05
Player7 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [As Ac Kh 2d]
Player8 folds
Player1 calls $0.10
HERO calls $0.10
Player3 folds
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Player7 folds
Player8 checks
*** FLOP *** [6d 6s 8d]
Player3 stands up
bAAdbEEtU adds $10
Player8 has 15 seconds left to act
Player8 checks
Player1 has 15 seconds left to act
Player1 checks
HERO checks
*** TURN *** [6d 6s 8d] [Ts]
Player8 checks
Player1 checks
HERO checks
*** RIVER *** [6d 6s 8d Ts] [8s]
Player8 has 15 seconds left to act
Player8 checks
Player1 checks
HERO checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Player8 shows [9d Qc 3h Qs] two pair, Queens and Eights, for high
Player1 mucks
HERO shows [As Ac Kh 2d] two pair, Aces and Eights, for high
HERO wins the pot ($0.35) with two pair, Aces and Eights
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.35 | Rake $0
Board: [6d 6s 8d Ts 8s]
Seat 1: Player1 mucked [Ks 5h 7c Ad] - HI: a pair of Eights
Seat 2: HERO showed [As Ac Kh 2d] and won ($0.35) with HI: two pair, Aces and Eights
Seat 3: Player3 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Player4 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Player5 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Player6 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Player7 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: Player8 (big blind) showed [9d Qc 3h Qs] and lost with HI: two pair, Queens and Eights
Seat 9: Player9 didn't bet (folded)

[The Donator]

Final hand:

Here I thought I was a genius until the cards were turned over. I keep reading about "freerolls" -- which I never flop -- and thought I had one on the turn with the straight and nut flush draw, but it turns out I would've been crying in my cereal if the board paired. I just got lucky, right?


Full Tilt Poker Game - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Omaha H/L - - 2007/11/26
Seat 1: Player1 ($4.45)
Seat 2: HERO ($9.35)
Seat 3: Player3 ($4.20)
Seat 4: Player4 ($9.20)
Seat 5: Player5 ($10)
Seat 6: Player6 ($4.85)
Seat 7: Player7 ($9.80)
Seat 8: Player8 ($16.30)
Seat 9: Player9 ($10), is sitting out
HERO posts the small blind of $0.05
Player3 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [8d Ah Td Qh]
Player4 calls $0.10
Player5 folds
Player6 calls $0.10
Player7 folds
Player8 folds
Player1 folds
HERO calls $0.05
Player3 checks
*** FLOP *** [Ad Th Kc]
HERO checks
Player3 checks
Player4 checks
Player6 checks
*** TURN *** [Ad Th Kc] [Jh]
HERO bets $9.25, and is all in
Player3 folds
Player4 folds
Player6 calls $4.75, and is all in
HERO shows [8d Ah Td Qh]
Player6 shows [Ac Ks Qd Kd]
Uncalled bet of $4.50 returned to HERO
*** RIVER *** [Ad Th Kc Jh] [7h]
HERO shows a flush, Ace high, for high
Player6 shows a straight, Ace high, for high
HERO wins the pot ($8.95) with a flush, Ace high
Player6 is sitting out
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9.90 | Rake $0.95
Board: [Ad Th Kc Jh 7h]
Seat 1: Player1 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: HERO (small blind) showed [8d Ah Td Qh] and won ($8.95) with HI: a flush, Ace high
Seat 3: Player3 (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 4: Player4 folded on the Turn
Seat 5: Player5 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Player6 showed [Ac Ks Qd Kd] and lost with HI: a straight, Ace high
Seat 7: Player7 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Player8 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Player9 is sitting out

[rando]

[ QUOTE ]
I only raise with hands like AA2K suited, then when the 8-9-10 suited flops come I back off and get mugged. ... Is KKJ10 any good with a K-3-4 flop? ... I'm confident about where I stand postflop. But with so many cards dealt out in OHL I'm always assuming somebody's got something better than I do when I don't have the nuts either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a lot to digest there. Do not only raise with hands like AA2x, because good players will know your pattern and refuse to give you action, and when they do they will have an easy time determining when they've got you over the barrel post-flop. What if you only raised with AA and KK in NLHE and nothing else?

Set of Ks is nice there, but vulnerable. Build the pot on the flop in a multiway hand, or pot it to pressure opponent heads up. Reevaluate if a straight card (also by definition here a low card) and/or flush turns, if a blank apply lots of pressure to either push them out or play their draw -EV. You're looking to trap sets and busted draws (str8, low, and flush) but that's a lot to fend off which is why top set on even a mildly coordinated 2-low flop is very vulnerable. Still, you can't let people make hands for free. That's the essence of this being a 'drawing game.' You need to hold on to the bull's horns in that spot. Build the pot, apply pressure at the right time, and the winnings from dead chasers and trapped hands will more than offset the losses when you have to hit eject on scary turns and even rivers - if someone is going to call a huge bet on the turn (All in in this spot on a turn brick) then play against them all the time because they are eventually felting themselves. The tough spots here are when you are raised on the flop by a wheel/other wrap and you don't know if a flush draw is also there, which is why you can consider just building the pot on this street so folding to action is cheaper for you.

You may not be as confident as you think post-flop. With so many cards dealt the paranoia complex is justifiable in multiway hands, but heads up you need to know how to see through the fog. Raise a few lesser hands preflop here and there. A24K ss is worth a raise, and if you brick the flop it's still cheap to dump it. Mix up your play and raises. You are very smart to focus on nuts, high and low, just remember that if you're heads up your requirements should be a little less provided you either have decent hands both ways or a very good hand one way (especially high if a made low isn't possible). Since we're talking NLO8, you're bound to get stuck either stacking off on questionable calls, or dumping very good hands against bluffing donkeys... now and then, especially while you're learning the ropes. This is NLO8 we're talking about.

Hands:

1 - I like it, made nut low can definitely bluff the naked ace, great way to steal money from the lesser flushes and any high hand.

2 - Agreed, especially dumpable when bet and called in front of you.

3 - feel free to pot flop

4 - no, it's not that you got lucky, it's that you "didn't get unlucky" ... you had 8 hearts (9 if you are counting the J but you might undercount to allow for broadway drawing to fill up) and he had 3 Js and a K... your odds of improving are twice his. Not that you could know this, but broadway with a flush draw is pretty darn good here, so don't question your approach too much.

[The Donator]

Thank you much for taking the time to break it down and help me out. I'm going to have to reread your reply a few times before it sinks in, I'm sure, but I'm already starting to feel like I'm at least facing in the right direction, if not heading that way. Seems like my best hands are when I'm the aggressor, which should be a "duh", I guess, but it's tough to evolve from a caller and checker into a bettor and raiser.

[The Donator]

So I decide tonight not to play like such a nit, loosen up a little with good hands, then I (think) I couldn't have played this hand any worse.

Full Tilt Poker Game: - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Omaha H/L - - 2007/11/27
Seat 1: Player1 ($2.10)
Seat 2: Player2 ($9.55)
Seat 3: Player3 ($4.50)
Seat 4: Player4 ($10.90)
Seat 5: Player5 ($4.10)
Seat 6: Player6 ($7.60)
Seat 7: HERO ($9.45)
Seat 8: Player7 ($3.30)
Seat 9: Player8 ($3.30)
HERO posts the small blind of $0.05
Player7 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [4h 3s 6d 5d]
Player8 has 15 seconds left to act
Player8 calls $0.10
Player1 calls $0.10
Player2 folds
Player3 calls $0.10
Player4 calls $0.10
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
HERO calls $0.05
Player7 checks
*** FLOP *** [As 2h Qh]
HERO checks
Player7 checks
Player8 checks
Player1 checks
Player3 bets $0.60
Player4 calls $0.60
HERO calls $0.60
Player7 folds
Player8 calls $0.60
Player1 folds
*** TURN *** [As 2h Qh] [Tc]
HERO checks
Player8 checks
Player3 bets $3
Player4 calls $3
HERO calls $3
Player8 has 15 seconds left to act
Player8 calls $2.60, and is all in
*** RIVER *** [As 2h Qh Tc] [Qc]
HERO checks
Player3 bets $0.80, and is all in
Player4 calls $0.80
HERO folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Player3 shows [Qd Qs Ah 6c] four of a kind, Queens, for high
Player4 mucks
Player3 wins the side pot ($2.50) with four of a kind, Queens
Player8 mucks
Player3 wins the main pot ($12.10) with four of a kind, Queens
Player8 is sitting out
No low hand qualified

[The Donator]

Of course, now I'm STEAMING, but trying to compose myself (and save my computer screen from damage), only to get this beauty of a starting hand and do something I've never done before and that's go all-in preflop. Got one caller after long pause and it held up. Felt like a genius for about 10 seconds, but I'm probably not the best judge of that. At least I showed some aggression. Any thoughts, OHL gurus?


Full Tilt Poker Game #$0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Omaha H/L - ET - 2007/11/27
Seat 1: Player1 ($8.05)
Seat 3: Player2 ($9.90)
Seat 4: Player3 ($9)
Seat 5: Player4 ($10)
Seat 6: Player5 ($4.20)
Seat 7: HERO ($9.50)
Seat 8: Player6 ($9.35)
Seat 9: Player7 ($4.80)
Player5 posts the small blind of $0.05
HERO posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [5h 2c Ac As]
Player8 sits down
Player6 folds
Player8 adds $10
Player7 calls $0.10
Player1 folds
Player2 calls $0.10
Player3 folds
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
HERO raises to $9.50, and is all in
Player7 folds
Player2 has 15 seconds left to act
Player2 calls $9.40
HERO shows [5h 2c Ac As]
Player2 shows [Ah 7h 2s Kh]
*** FLOP *** [8h 8c Qs]
*** TURN *** [8h 8c Qs] [2d]
*** RIVER *** [8h 8c Qs 2d] [9h]
HERO shows two pair, Aces and Eights, for high
Player2 shows two pair, Eights and Twos, for high
HERO wins the pot ($17.25) with two pair, Aces and Eights
No low hand qualified

[rando]

Hand 1 is tough when you are getting used to this game. You get a top-tier flop for your hand, but take a closer look. you need any third low card, so 21 outs, 9 of which wheel you, 3 (if a 6 on turn) give you a wrap. So your odds for half the pot are great, and ok for the whole pot (based just on that), but back out the other 8 hearts (assuming someone has a flush draw with this much action) and figure someone flopped broadway, and your chances for the high are ice cold. You can call that flop, but with this much action, until you hit a non-heart low card you've GOT to shut it down after the flop call. Don't chase your lows like that. Even if you make it, can you be all that confident you're getting a full half of the pot?

Hand two is nice. In NLO8 some people push great AA hands (i.e. AA plus 2 or 3 and either fourth card suited to ace or another wheel) to the hilt hoping for the occasional sucker caller. You got one here with 72% equity preflop. Personally I like to gamble more with AA2w and get a decent chunk in preflop then press hard on any uncoordinated flop. This would have been a tough flop for that approach. Nobody can fault you for going AI preflop with AA2w, and many do just that at higher levels.

Now that you have more confidence and direction, you will learn quickly! Just remember that NLO8 is the "degenerate gambler's" poker, and you will be frustrated by donk happenings more in this game than perhaps any other. Avoid braying yourself and the luck evening out will take care of the rest.

[The Donator]

Once again, thanks a lot for taking the time to help me out, Rando. Although I realize there's still lots to learn, I feel like I'm at least moving more and more in the right direction. I used to feel like I was in a foxhole, but now it's like I'm charging the enemy. Way more fun this way.