The quality of play @ 8-16 and lower, and EVEN @ 20-40

p4594spa · #1 11-01-2007, 03:55 PM

I play regularly at Bay101, and I have found that tricky plays at 8-16 and lower are totally wasted on 95% of the players and that they won't even notice they have happened. As a result of the typical Loose and passive players, I have found that the best play is almost always to just bet out, rather than C/R. Even at the 20-40 games, may only 1-2 players are paying attention, and at all of these tables any discussion about pot odds, or implied odds is met with blank deer in the headlight stares.

Am I right about this? Do you see the same at other B&M's?

I find the Small Stakes and Medium Stakes discussion that I monitor and read very useful learning exercises on the analysis side, but not very applicable from the how to bet side because of the nature of the players that I see.

PokerCad · #2 11-01-2007, 04:27 PM

Hey P,

(since nobody is replying, I will come out of the closet)

The "plays" as you call them are not intended to show everyone how great a poker player you think you might be, but to add profit through a myriad of ways. If you think they go unoticed then you may want to pay a little more attention yourself.

Just a thought,,,,

BadBigBabar · #3 11-01-2007, 04:33 PM

i've found (although i'm east, and not out west where probably a lot of you are) that games 20/40 and down are beatable through solid "abc tag" play. maybe every now and then against a regular i'll try to get fancy but for the most part there's no need. players tend to be passive and check lots of scare cards, but they do call if you bet, so i like to bet as opposed to hoping to c/r a lot.

n.s. · #4 11-01-2007, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Even at the 20-40 games, may only 1-2 players are paying attention, and at all of these tables any discussion about pot odds, or implied odds is met with blank deer in the headlight stares.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't discuss poker strategy at the table. You might find that sometimes those blank stares are actually coming from players who know exactly what you saying, but are smart enough to shut up about it.

In general it sounds like you are trying to impress the other players, not take their money.

Oh, and c/ring is a valuable tool at all levels of play (including donkey-fest 2/4 games).

KitCloudkicker · #5 11-01-2007, 05:51 PM

why are you talking about implied odds at at low limit game.

are you there to show off or make money?

sternroolz · #6 11-01-2007, 07:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why are you talking about implied odds at at low limit game.

are you there to show off or make money?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. Don't educate the donkeys, fish, drunks, or ignorants. Its not your place.

Anyway, I rarely checkraise anymore. Raising pf more often removes some of the need to cr or exercise so called fancy plays. I find that betting, betting, and betting again tends to disguise hands more than anything else.

I do c/r from the blinds if I have a vulnerable type hand and want to get people out of the pot if the CO or Button are overly aggressive. But even then, I far more often donk/3bet.

There are two hands I do c/r a lot. One is when I flop a set from the blinds against an early position pf raiser. This is entirely for equity purposes. I want the field trapped for two bets. I also tend to c/r a lot when I am in the blinds or UTG and hit a straight(ie disguised). Same reason as with the set. I want players trapped for the extra bets. OTOH, if say I held KQ and the flop is J10x and an A or 9 comes on the turn, I will bet it out. The Ace especially is a scare card and someone may not bet. OTOH, if someone behind me does have AJ A10 or Ax, they may well raise my bet and I can 3 bet.

Most other hands I just keep betting. I find that the bet/3bet is my biggest money maker. I especially never slow play quads.

Captain R · #7 11-02-2007, 01:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I play regularly at Bay101, and I have found that tricky plays at 8-16 and lower are totally wasted on 95% of the players and that they won't even notice they have happened. As a result of the typical Loose and passive players, I have found that the best play is almost always to just bet out, rather than C/R.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? I have no idea what this post is saying. Maybe if you explained why the bet is better than the "tricky" c/r, that would help everyone understand your point.

Sometimes it's better to bet, sometimes it's better to c/r. At all limits, at all games. Depends on when/why/who/what/where, doesn't it?

celiholic · #8 11-02-2007, 01:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I play regularly at Bay101, and I have found that tricky plays at 8-16 and lower are totally wasted on 95% of the players and that they won't even notice they have happened. As a result of the typical Loose and passive players, I have found that the best play is almost always to just bet out, rather than C/R.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? I have no idea what this post is saying. Maybe if you explained why the bet is better than the "tricky" c/r, that would help everyone understand your point.

Sometimes it's better to bet, sometimes it's better to c/r. At all limits, at all games. Depends on when/why/who/what/where, doesn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

cr is good for passive table where b3b is rare

it depends

fishyak · #9 11-02-2007, 11:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I rarely checkraise anymore. Raising pf more often removes some of the need to cr or exercise so called fancy plays. I find that betting, betting, and betting again tends to disguise hands more than anything else.

I do c/r from the blinds if I have a vulnerable type hand and want to get people out of the pot if the CO or Button are overly aggressive. But even then, I far more often donk/3bet.

There are two hands I do c/r a lot. One is when I flop a set from the blinds against an early position pf raiser. This is entirely for equity purposes. I want the field trapped for two bets. I also tend to c/r a lot when I am in the blinds or UTG and hit a straight(ie disguised). Same reason as with the set. I want players trapped for the extra bets. OTOH, if say I held KQ and the flop is J10x and an A or 9 comes on the turn, I will bet it out. The Ace especially is a scare card and someone may not bet. OTOH, if someone behind me does have AJ A10 or Ax, they may well raise my bet and I can 3 bet.

Most other hands I just keep betting. I find that the bet/3bet is my biggest money maker. I especially never slow play quads.

[/ QUOTE ] Edited by fishyak

My new hero.

p4594spa · #10 11-02-2007, 02:29 PM

Thanks for some thoughtful responses. I unfortunately have been misread about my comments about fancy plays. This isn't an ego thing.
The point of the plays, other than just building pot equity or a bigger pot, also is to send a message at times. For example, a C/R, is typically interpreted by a thinking player as a strong move and will invoke an appropriate reaction. For non-observant players, who don't notice the C/R, they will continue to bet merrily along (which may be to my benefit), but I certainly won't chase some of them out like I might with a thoughtful player.

My real point is that the more sophisticated plays do other things than just build pots.