.5/ 1 ATs cold calls on the button flops nut flush and gutshot

somapopper · #1 09-04-2007, 03:28 PM

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 3 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Hero calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, MP2 folds, CO calls, Hero caps, UTG calls, CO calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (13.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

My first orbit at the table, no real reads on anybody involved.

I was hoping to take a free card on the turn, obviously that didn't work out.

I would have raised the river and called a 3 bet if a low flush card came.

Anyway, just getting back into playing online and trying to shake the rust off. Promised myself I'd post some hands not sure if this one is terribly interesting.

RemyXO · #2 09-04-2007, 03:42 PM

Flop raise/cap is [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] The cap is not only for free card, I think you actually have positive edge against two opponents with your monster draw. Need to do the math.

With no reads on UTG and paired board, I like calling the river. Way too many possible hands in UTG's hole that improved to a boat.

EDIT: Yep, with 12 outs to the nuts you are ~51% to win it by the river. You got positive equity edge and should cap. Free card play is a bonus.

tyler_cracker · #3 09-04-2007, 04:16 PM

(edit: removed comment for remy because i can't read)

soma,

replying to hands is much more useful for shaking off rust than posting hands.

[ QUOTE ]
I would have raised the river and called a 3 bet if a low flush card came.

[/ QUOTE ]

what is the difference between a low flush card and the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]?

somapopper · #4 09-04-2007, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
(edit: removed comment for remy because i can't read)

soma,

replying to hands is much more useful for shaking off rust than posting hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been replying to some in SSL because that was my old haunt. (or maybe because I'm struggling to accept that I'm trying to build a roll again).

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would have raised the river and called a 3 bet if a low flush card came.

[/ QUOTE ]

what is the difference between a low flush card and the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]?

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you make his range out to be after the UTG raise and the flop cap? KK seems like one of his likely holdings to me.

bozlax · #5 09-04-2007, 04:37 PM

Posting blind: Just curious, if you flopped the nut flush why do you care about your gutshot?

Having read your post: Ahhhh, you flopped a nut flush DRAW.

Raise preflop for value against 2 cold-callers.

Flop is fine.

Turn is fine.

Raise/cap the river for value. You made the nut straight on the river; that beats exactly the same hands that making your flush beats except for the very unlikely chop, so if you'd have raise/called the flush you should at least raise/call the straight. And, given the size of the pot after the 3-bet, the cap bet wouldn't change your winrate by that much.

cmcneilly · #6 09-04-2007, 04:38 PM

Is cold calling here so clearly right? You could pretty easily be dominated here. You have position, which is nice, but I might be tempted to fold this, if I had any sort of read on villain that he wasn't a loon.

Xhad · #7 09-04-2007, 04:44 PM

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Raise preflop for value against 2 cold-callers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely not. Too much risk of domination by UTG, your flush potential may offset that but not with only 2 intervening players.

[ QUOTE ]
Raise/cap the river for value. You made the nut straight on the river; that beats exactly the same hands that making your flush beats except for the very unlikely chop, so if you'd have raise/called the flush you should at least raise/call the straight. And, given the size of the pot after the 3-bet, the cap bet wouldn't change your winrate by that much.

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KK, K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and a few other hands that will get scared by that river card and play more passively than they would on the low flush card. Capping sucks, not close, spewtastic against at least 95% of opponents. Putting in an unnecessary bet drawing dead is putting in an unnecessary bet drawing dead no matter what's in the pot.

CrMenace · #8 09-04-2007, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise/cap the river for value. You made the nut straight on the river; that beats exactly the same hands that making your flush beats except for the very unlikely chop, so if you'd have raise/called the flush you should at least raise/call the straight. And, given the size of the pot after the 3-bet, the cap bet wouldn't change your winrate by that much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Question is whether you should raise the river at all. Seems like an awful lot of pfr/flop 3b hands have us beat here. Imagining the range is JJ+, KJ+, AJ+ you're ahead of 18 hands and behind 13, chopping 9. But KQ makes up a big portion of your winning range -- discount that much and you are down to pretty much a 50/50 proposition.

CrMenace · #9 09-04-2007, 05:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
KK, K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and a few other hands that will get scared by that river card and play more passively than they would on the low flush card.

[/ QUOTE ]

How will these hands be scared by a K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] river? They just made a boat?

Xhad · #10 09-04-2007, 05:07 PM

Against an unknown I would consider KJ to be heavily discounted other than K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] which beats us, and really wouldn't give an unknown AJ at all. KQ is really the only thing we beat and even that's questionable after he led into the flop cap. If we're talking about the river decision after getting 3bet, it's closer to a fold than a raise; KQ might do this even though it shouldn't but AA should be discounted completely.