PokerStars: Allow Datamining

[apefish]

I'm probably on the side of OP in this.
I'm not going to get into that too much.

The cheaters at Absolute were tagged because people combined their known data on them to see the patterns.

Anyone who says they only were caught because of the excel file has either ignored the timeline of events or hasn't read the threads at all.

They were "caught" because of the data. The file was important because it led to the other things- namely accounts in the name of Absolute Poker management, the superuser account #363 and traces to the modem of the people.

People were convinced of the cheating long before the file came to light.

Hate the collection of data or not- it absolutely helped crack this case of cheating.
Anyone saying differently has an axe to grind with datamining.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]


Hate the collection of data or not- it absolutely helped crack this case of cheating.
Anyone saying differently has an axe to grind with datamining.

[/ QUOTE ]

you left out the part where none of the data came from datamining. It all came from people who had actually played with the suspects.

[Devilboy666]

I just wanted to re-iterate that many people are already datamining Stars, and I believe that this is enough to catch any obvious underhandedness like the others that's come to light this year. Just because Stars don't 'allow' it, don't think religious dataminers are going to stop. As long as you can observe tables, Stars will have dataminers.

[freecard4all]

[ QUOTE ]
(LeapFrog) http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...565&page=0
Annnnnnnndd here we get to the truth
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...page=0&vc=1


[/ QUOTE ]
HA HA HA Nice!
Hey, MyTurn2Raise - thank to LeapFrog because he finally proved how the data mining (aka search function) can be used against cheaters (lairs) . HA HA HA.

[ QUOTE ]
(blackize) No you [censored] moron. It's very clear what his motives are. He wants to prevent cheating similar to that which has been brought to light recently with the help of dataminers.

[/ QUOTE ]

HA HA HA HA HAAAAA U HU HUUUUUU HE HE HEEEEE HA HA HAAAAA HA HHAAAAAAAA HO HO HOOOOOOO HA HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA
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[ QUOTE ]
(blackize) He wants to prevent cheating similar to that which has been brought to light recently with the help of dataminers.

[/ QUOTE ]
HA HA HA HA HA

Now OP, are you goint to repeat this bull-[censored] every time there's a case that can support your [censored] laziness?
You can't open the tables yourself, can you? You want someone who will write you a script you just run and leave.

Say that's not true. And we can again challenge the data mining [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[freecard4all]

[ QUOTE ]
So really, this is all about YOUR self-interest in that you are afraid that allowing datamining will cut down on YOUR profits?

[/ QUOTE ]
yes, this is about my interest. The interest is fishy games. I don't care about "rock-protected" games if it means they are no longer fishy.

I wouldn't play in a compromised game.
I wouldn't play in a non-fishy game.

I want all or nothing. Poker isn't the only thing in the world. If my edge gets too low I can go elsewhere.


And why do you want the opposite? If you want rock-garden you can play WPEX.
PS is nice because it's fishy. You all play there because it's fishy! Why the hell do you want to make it new WPEX?

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(LeapFrog) http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...565&page=0
Annnnnnnndd here we get to the truth
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...page=0&vc=1


[/ QUOTE ]
HA HA HA Nice!
Hey, MyTurn2Raise - thank to LeapFrog because he finally proved how the data mining (aka search function) can be used against cheaters (lairs) . HA HA HA.

[ QUOTE ]
(blackize) No you [censored] moron. It's very clear what his motives are. He wants to prevent cheating similar to that which has been brought to light recently with the help of dataminers.

[/ QUOTE ]

HA HA HA HA HAAAAA U HU HUUUUUU HE HE HEEEEE HA HA HAAAAA HA HHAAAAAAAA HO HO HOOOOOOO HA HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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[ QUOTE ]
(blackize) He wants to prevent cheating similar to that which has been brought to light recently with the help of dataminers.

[/ QUOTE ]
HA HA HA HA HA

Now OP, are you goint to repeat this bull-[censored] every time there's a case that can support your [censored] laziness?
You can't open the tables yourself, can you? You want someone who will write you a script you just run and leave.

Say that's not true. And we can again challenge the data mining [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


my gosh....where did you come from and why are you so adament about this?

anyway, did I even say profiteering wasn't one of my motives
I play poker for a large part of my income FFS
of course I'm interested in the profits

why I want datamining?
1) watch good players play poker in a replayer
2) protection of the games

I don't care about the opposition at the table whose stats converge so quick it rarely matters

I care about learning--it's fantastic to watch some of the guys that post here when I get a chance

I care about fair games

I am very afraid of bots in ring games




The point is definitely not about being too lazy to write my own script or whatever. I could have that done rather quickly. However, I have never mined stars or attempted to mine stars. It's against the T&C. I don't want to be banned from a site that valuable.

I could also pay for hand histories....I don't care so much about that. (so quit PMing me people)

I have Full Tilt mining and learn tons from watching a few players whose game I respect there. I'd love to also learn from my pokerstars brethren.




However, given these cases, I do see the huge help 3rd party miners have on keeping the games safe.



My guess is you probably sell mined hands....otherwise, I don't get you at all.

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So really, this is all about YOUR self-interest in that you are afraid that allowing datamining will cut down on YOUR profits?

[/ QUOTE ]
yes, this is about my interest. The interest is fishy games. I don't care about "rock-protected" games if it means they are no longer fishy.

I wouldn't play in a compromised game.
I wouldn't play in a non-fishy game.

I want all or nothing. Poker isn't the only thing in the world. If my edge gets too low I can go elsewhere.


And why do you want the opposite? If you want rock-garden you can play WPEX.
PS is nice because it's fishy. You all play there because it's fishy! Why the hell do you want to make it new WPEX?

[/ QUOTE ]

How would datamining increase the rockiness in any noticeable way on Stars?
Regulars already can keep their own hands and know the other regs. There isn't a hidden horde of rocks waiting for stars to add datamining.

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]
hahahaha
why dont you try telling me whats funny genius?

id prefer games without datamining 38 tablers and would happily take the small amount of cheating that goes on instead (data mining catches next to none of this anyway)

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd love to see all these 38 tabling dataminers that are not playing stars now, but would if they allowed datamining in their T&C

[apefish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Hate the collection of data or not- it absolutely helped crack this case of cheating.
Anyone saying differently has an axe to grind with datamining.

[/ QUOTE ]

you left out the part where none of the data came from datamining. It all came from people who had actually played with the suspects.

[/ QUOTE ]

My post was a direct rebuttal against inaccuracies being tossed about as justifications for opinions that are based in personal preference.
That's all.

Gaining access to multiple layers of personal hand histories that no one person could have was actually a hindrance in spotting the cheating.

I don't datamine. I've never purchased nor ever would a third party database.

People saying there wouldn't be benefits to it in instances like this are wrong.

It's fine for people to weigh personal feelings on it however they want.
Just don't make [censored] up to do it.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
How would datamining increase the rockiness in any noticeable way on Stars?
Regulars already can keep their own hands and know the other regs. There isn't a hidden horde of rocks waiting for stars to add datamining.

[/ QUOTE ]
The main reason most of us would datamine is so that we can more efficiently find the fish. Then the fish go broke quicker and the games get worse - some of them may lose far less in the long term by being so badly beaten up so quickly.

IMO the only reason to allow datamining is that apparantly some are doing it anyway. That's very annoying for those of us who won't do it if its not allowed. Far preferable to allowing it is to stop those who do it anyway but is that possible?