Live 6/12: TT UTG and two ugly overs

jesse8888 · #1 10-17-2007, 12:32 AM

Game has one pre-flop super lag who is the button in this hand. He will occasionally call preflop, but usually raises. Sometimes he does fold, so he's not playing 100%. Probably like 80. He is very aggressive post flop but has noticed that I know what I'm doing (as I've been card dead for 90 minutes) and might respect bets from me.

We are 8 handed. I raise T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG. UTG+1 calls (way too lose pre and post flop - he has adjusted to the super aggro button), button calls, big blind calls with ATC and we're off.

4 players, 8 small bets:
K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero bets out (???), UTG+1 folds, Button raises, BB calls all in for 2 of the 6 chips. Hero calls(???).

At this point I've narrowed button's range down to flush draws, open ended straight draws, gut-shots, kings and queens (he would have called preflop with any suited K or Q and he would raise with Q2). He probably doesn't have an Ace, cause he'd have probably 3 bet that pf.

Heads up, 6 big bets + 2 chips, one player with ATC all in for 3/4ths of the pot.

K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero (???)

JT got there, and there are now a pair of flush draws on the board. There are 6 big bets in the and I have to beat the ATC BB for 4.5 of them. What do I do?

Edit: Curses....the turn was actually a 9. Sorry guys.

mrcunningham · #2 10-17-2007, 12:39 AM

Jesse,
With all these loose players, who have apparently adjusted to the super lag, I'm thinking check the flop and depending on the action either fold, call, or raise when it comes back to you. I'd be afraid that there's a good chance that you are already behind, and even if ahead will have to dodge a bunch of the other players outs, and you only have two. my 2 cents.

uminchu · #3 10-17-2007, 12:40 AM

WHAT? gimmick much or are you serious, JT gets there on a KQ48 board, you totally shoulda folded the flop to the raise, you probably could even check fold on this board its so gross

One Outer · #4 10-17-2007, 12:43 AM

PF good, of course.

I'm torn on the flop. I'm thinking about checking, but then what do I do when someone bets? Maybe if it checks to the button and the action comes back around to me uncalled...I just can't come up with a good plan unless I bet, I guess.

As played I'm check folding the turn. If this were heads up I'd just start check calling button, but I don't like having to beat the suicide all in and the lag, and I certainly don't think I'm going to beat both of them 1 in 6.

jesse8888 · #5 10-17-2007, 12:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
and I certainly don't think I'm going to beat both of them 1 in 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

If theoretically the button were to bet if I checked to him, it'd be 2 big bets to call him down against 8 out there (6 + his 2) unless he didn't bet the river, which i have to say given his style is pretty much un-possible.

So in short, I gotta be good a little more than 1 in 6 here to call.

jesse8888 · #6 10-17-2007, 12:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm torn on the flop. I'm thinking about checking, but then what do I do when someone bets? Maybe if it checks to the button and the action comes back around to me uncalled...I just can't come up with a good plan unless I bet, I guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I check the flop, one of two things will happen with almost complete certainty:

1. UTG+1 bets, Button raises, BB calls two chips
2. UTG+1 checks, Button bets, BB calls two chips

I didn't like that cause I couldn't fold in (2).

I'd appreciate comments focused on "what to do on the turn with this hand, as played"

One Outer · #7 10-17-2007, 12:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and I certainly don't think I'm going to beat both of them 1 in 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

If theoretically the button were to bet if I checked to him, it'd be 2 big bets to call him down against 8 out there (6 + his 2) unless he didn't bet the river, which i have to say given his style is pretty much un-possible.

So in short, I gotta be good a little more than 1 in 6 here to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

[X] nitpicking

Come on bro! That was pretty close...I just suck at math.

Do you think you're good that often?

jesse8888 · #8 10-17-2007, 01:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Do you think you're good that often?

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts would bias the rest of the posting. I asked what everyone else thought [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

And yeah, i nit picked, but that's what I do. Thanks!

mrcunningham · #9 10-17-2007, 01:20 AM

I guess a lot of this depends on your read of the villain. Given that the villain is so laggy that you've got yourself to the turn this way, I'd consider letting him continue with the lead and calling him down. I'm not sure that the 9h is so bad that I'd check/fold given the apparent read you have.

Tugg · #10 10-17-2007, 08:06 AM

Based on your range of hands. The K,Q and open ended are all there, and if your ahead , he still has 12 cards to beat you.
Unfortunately I don't know what ATC means for the BB, but he may have you beat and your only playing for part of the pot.OOp I fold this.