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  #1  
Old 11-08-2007, 01:03 PM
jackatwork jackatwork is offline
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Default 1/2 2-7 TD, newbie hand

I'm pretty new to this game, but I've read everything I could find, watched the one CR video, etc. so I think I'm fairly familiar with at least the basics. One of my main questions about this hand concerns counting dead outs vs. multiple opponents - and how that relates to my decision after the first draw.

5 handed, A few hands ago, BB had a wheel before the first draw and checked it down vs. three opponents (no one ever bet), no reads on the others

Hero is in CO 235QA
UTG folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB raises, Hero calls, Button Calls, SB Calls

FIRST DRAW (12 sb)
SB draws 2, BB draws 2, Hero Discards AQ, Button draws 2
Hero has 2357A after the draw

SB bets, BB raises, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls

SECOND DRAW (9bb)
SB draws 1, BB draws 1, Hero discards A
Hero has 2357K after the draw
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks

THIRD DRAW (9bb)
SB draws 1, BB draws 1, Hero Discards K
Hero has 2357J after the draw
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2007, 01:17 PM
iron81 iron81 is offline
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Default Re: 1/2 2-7 TD, newbie hand

Perfect.
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  #3  
Old 11-08-2007, 01:35 PM
Seb86 Seb86 is offline
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Default Re: 1/2 2-7 TD, newbie hand

raise after first draw.

other than that standard, I dont see what are you questionning.
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  #4  
Old 11-08-2007, 02:05 PM
jackatwork jackatwork is offline
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Default Re: 1/2 2-7 TD, newbie hand

Well, basically my questions is after the first draw. Why would you raise rather than call? And as for my question counting dead outs, we know that an approximate rule of thumb is to discount each rank by a half out when heads up, how does this translate to multiple opponents, or is the pot big enough and my draw strong enough that I can pretty much ignore this sort of thing?

Another general question. Say on the 2nd draw, BB stood pat and I drew an 8 for an 87532 and bb kept up the aggression. What would your plan for the rest of the hand be?
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2007, 02:29 PM
iron81 iron81 is offline
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Default Re: 1/2 2-7 TD, newbie hand

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you raise rather than call?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because Seb likes to spew. His hand looks pretty, but he is rarely significantly ahead here, his oppoents have good 1 card draws or are pat. If you jam there when your opponents are pat, you're putting money in behind.

[ QUOTE ]
And as for my question counting dead outs, we know that an approximate rule of thumb is to discount each rank by a half out when heads up, how does this translate to multiple opponents, or is the pot big enough and my draw strong enough that I can pretty much ignore this sort of thing?

[/ QUOTE ]
Definately don't fold, you can ignore dead outs here.

[ QUOTE ]
Another general question. Say on the 2nd draw, BB stood pat and I drew an 8 for an 87532 and bb kept up the aggression. What would your plan for the rest of the hand be?

[/ QUOTE ]
I would call behind and pat. The 3 bet pre-draw indicates that he was smooth going in, so there is an excellent chance he has you beat. However, he could easily have a 9 or 876 that you don't want him to break. If he pats and you come out firing, he'll know his hand is no good and break it. You want him to stay pat because if he pats that hand he's drawing dead. You also lose the minimum when he has the nuts.
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2007, 03:00 PM
palman palman is offline
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Default Re: 1/2 2-7 TD, newbie hand

[ QUOTE ]
raise after first draw.

other than that standard, I dont see what are you questionning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call after the first draw. You're not significantly ahead, and if you 3 bet and draw one, your hand is turned over. Against a smart player, he wouldn't get in a raising war with you with #3 on later streets if you catch a monster, whereas if you call after the first draw your hand looks a little weaker and are much more likely to get your opponnents to overplay their hands if you catch gin.
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2007, 03:45 PM
Life Tilt Life Tilt is offline
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Default Re: 1/2 2-7 TD, newbie hand


QFT (post above me). IMO if you raise with a 1 card draw its very obv you are drawing to a 7 or smooth 8, and will likely lose an extra BB if you make your hand, i.e. you will make more if they think you have a worse hand.

Call after the first draw. You're not significantly ahead, and if you 3 bet and draw one, your hand is turned over. Against a smart player, he wouldn't get in a raising war with you with #3 on later streets if you catch a monster, whereas if you call after the first draw your hand looks a little weaker and are much more likely to get your opponnents to overplay their hands if you catch gin.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #8  
Old 11-09-2007, 02:11 PM
InWithTheBest InWithTheBest is offline
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Default Re: 1/2 2-7 TD, newbie hand

bet river here sometimes, with them checking you can rule out enough hands that beat you to make this a reasonable but thin bet against their range.
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