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  #21  
Old 11-27-2007, 03:26 PM
maxtower maxtower is offline
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Default Re: Understanding the Social Security scam

Changing any of those things makes it a scam, because one generation foots the bill for another generation. My letter from SS every year even says that they expect to reduce my benefits before I retire. Great, I am paying for some granny's benefits who never worked a day in her life, and could easily get by on her inheritance from her late husband, but when I retire after 30-40 years of working, selling my soul to the man, I'll be faced with reduced (if any) benefits?

Sounds like a scam to me.
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2007, 03:33 PM
mosdef mosdef is offline
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Default Re: Understanding the Social Security scam

[ QUOTE ]
Many budgets and pension plans are similar to pyramids schemes. They rely on a certain amount of money coming in to pay the money going out. That doesn't make them scams.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is "scammy" though when it is not transparent to all partipants that there is an intergenerational cost shift going on, or when participants are told flat out that their contributions are sufficient to meet plan obligations when they are not, or when the contributions to the plan are not held in trust for plan members. To a certain extent, all of these criticisms apply to SS.

[ QUOTE ]
By-the-way Capitalism is basically a pyramid scheme. Usually, Capitalism, in order to be a healthy, viable system has to sustain constant growth.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong (or, at best, backwards). Capitalism creates growth, it does not "rely" on it to be "healthy". Growth is the end product of healthy capitalism, healthy capitalism is not the product of growth.
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  #23  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:32 PM
andyfox andyfox is offline
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Default Re: Understanding the Social Security scam

Meanwhile, they have to pay the taxes while they're trying to support their family, send their kids to college, etc. Bill Gates pays the same amount as I do, and I pay the same amount as someone making a tenth of my income.
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  #24  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:34 PM
andyfox andyfox is offline
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Default Re: Understanding the Social Security scam

I don't know what makes sense. Any minor modification, much less the major ones you speak of, will surely have a hard time, AARP is one of the more powerful lobbbies.
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  #25  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:35 PM
mosdef mosdef is offline
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Default Re: Understanding the Social Security scam

[ QUOTE ]
Meanwhile, they have to pay the taxes while they're trying to support their family, send their kids to college, etc. Bill Gates pays the same amount as I do, and I pay the same amount as someone making a tenth of my income.

[/ QUOTE ]

But they all get the same thing out, so it's not intriniscally "unfair".

I guess this question must be answered: do you expect the SS system to redistribute wealth or to defer wealth? In my mind, the primary purpose of pension plans is to defer wealth.
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  #26  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:38 PM
andyfox andyfox is offline
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Default Re: Understanding the Social Security scam

There is no guarantee as to what you will get out; future Congresses will decide. Nor is there a guarantee as to when you can get it. Thus the idea that you are putting in X to get out Y is a scam.

The idea of the trust fund is also a scam. The government, in the period from Reagan to Clinton, spent $1,700,000,000,000 of the social security "trust fund" on other things.

And the idea that it is helping those in need is a scam, in that the socail security tax is a regresssive tax that hits those who can least afford it the hardest.

If we define a scam as something that is presented as something other than what it is, social security would seem to fit the definition.
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  #27  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:29 PM
bocablkr bocablkr is offline
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Default Re: Understanding the Social Security scam

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By-the-way Capitalism is basically a pyramid scheme. Usually, Capitalism, in order to be a healthy, viable system has to sustain constant growth.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is wrong (or, at best, backwards). Capitalism creates growth, it does not "rely" on it to be "healthy". Growth is the end product of healthy capitalism, healthy capitalism is not the product of growth.


[/ QUOTE ]

Type in 'capitalism is a pyramid scheme' in google and see what you get. I think this is open to interpretation.
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  #28  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:38 PM
ConstantineX ConstantineX is offline
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Default Re: Understanding the Social Security scam

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By-the-way Capitalism is basically a pyramid scheme. Usually, Capitalism, in order to be a healthy, viable system has to sustain constant growth.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is wrong (or, at best, backwards). Capitalism creates growth, it does not "rely" on it to be "healthy". Growth is the end product of healthy capitalism, healthy capitalism is not the product of growth.


[/ QUOTE ]

Type in 'capitalism is a pyramid scheme' in google and see what you get. I think this is open to interpretation.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it isn't and what you're saying is useless nonsense.

Mos Def has the causative argument exactly right. Would you say that evolution is not "constant growth"?
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  #29  
Old 11-27-2007, 06:12 PM
Case Closed Case Closed is offline
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Default Re: Understanding the Social Security scam

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By-the-way Capitalism is basically a pyramid scheme. Usually, Capitalism, in order to be a healthy, viable system has to sustain constant growth.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is wrong (or, at best, backwards). Capitalism creates growth, it does not "rely" on it to be "healthy". Growth is the end product of healthy capitalism, healthy capitalism is not the product of growth.


[/ QUOTE ]

Type in 'capitalism is a pyramid scheme' in google and see what you get. I think this is open to interpretation.

[/ QUOTE ]
this site?
http://www.roman-empire-america-now.com/capitalism.html
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  #30  
Old 11-27-2007, 06:34 PM
DVaut1 DVaut1 is offline
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Default Re: Understanding the Social Security scam

FWIW, I'm not going to criticize the notion that Social Security is a scam, but if Social Security is a scam, that doesn't mean it fits the definition of a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are, by definition, unsustainable. Social Security and other social insurance programs are sustainable and the obligations are clearly defined and predictable, hence why the program has existed for 50+ years and relatedly, will continue to exist into the short to mid term future without any intervention whatsoever -- the 1983 Amendments assured that. Even the so-called "Social Security" funding crisis isn't a death knell for the program, as it can easily be made solvent again through some simple policy changes -- although I'll concede those changes may be unpopular. There is no other pyramid scheme, to my knowledge, which can exist for decades (and soon to be centuries) like Social Security has.

I realize I'm not responding to anyone in particular here, but it seems to be a popular to claim Social Security is a pyramid scheme, which seems pretty far from the truth.
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