Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > Other Poker > Other Poker Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-16-2007, 05:39 PM
HOWMANY HOWMANY is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,322
Default This can\'t be right? 30/60 2-7 *move to other poker please*

CR vid I'm watching right now. Villain is empiron, 4 handed 30 on Stars. Villain opens sb, Jackal 3bets 2568 and villain caps. Draw 1/1, Jackal catches a 9 and then draws after villain draws. We have the worst draw usually here so I don't understand breaking at all.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-16-2007, 09:59 PM
Jackal69 Jackal69 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: gg shortstackers!
Posts: 732
Default Re: This can\'t be right? 30/60 2-7 *move to other poker please*

do you remember the hand before where he called my utg raise, drew 2 then capped the flop with 3578T and stood pat the whole way? i didnt have any notes on the guy other than that and figured that against a maniac i lose little by drawing to something i could showdown always, like i said i was confused by the previous hand and i thought it was debatable either way given this.... obviously its not something id do very often. Thoughts appreciated, what are you doing with 98652 if he crs after 2nd draw?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-16-2007, 10:02 PM
HOWMANY HOWMANY is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,322
Default Re: This can\'t be right? 30/60 2-7 *move to other poker please*

After seeing his play with the T8 the previous hand I would hold on to my 98 for dear life and hope for the best no matter what he does.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-17-2007, 12:10 PM
*TT* *TT* is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Vehicle Chooser For Life!
Posts: 17,198
Default Re: This can\'t be right? 30/60 2-7 *move to other poker please*

[ QUOTE ]
After seeing his play with the T8 the previous hand I would hold on to my 98 for dear life and hope for the best no matter what he does.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats an error, with three draws the villain is a favorite if he holds 2348x or even 2678x! Hero was correct to drop the 9, however he would also be correct to keep the 9 on the following street if he drew and caught another 9 because then he is a slight equity favorite to win and the villain is now 1.25:1 against improving to the best hand by the river.

CR has 2-7 videos now? I didnt know.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-17-2007, 02:36 PM
iron81 iron81 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Resident Donk
Posts: 6,806
Default Re: This can\'t be right? 30/60 2-7 *move to other poker please*

TT, Jackel made the 98 on the first draw, so there's only 2 draws left. I'd keep the 9 too. On top of being an equity favorite, the villain might fold some crappy 8 draw if Jackal pats.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-17-2007, 03:33 PM
Jackal69 Jackal69 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: gg shortstackers!
Posts: 732
Default Re: This can\'t be right? 30/60 2-7 *move to other poker please*

[ QUOTE ]
TT, Jackel made the 98 on the first draw, so there's only 2 draws left. I'd keep the 9 too. On top of being an equity favorite, the villain might fold some crappy 8 draw if Jackal pats.

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought about this some more and whilst its not something id do hardly ever (and said was debatable at that moment in the vid) i still dont really mind it against a maniac in a video aimed at giving beginners straightforward decisions. Of couse 98 is an equity favourite here but i tend to think its a money loser since the guy is so crazy you have to call down with 98 if he crs the turn (which will happen a lot) or leads the river, but cant extract much value yourself. On the otherhand, drawing makes your future decisions much easier and with position i dont think you lose out on much equity overall as you can extact when you improve. FWIW i dont think he folds a draw ever if you pat, this is a guy who capped T8 after the first draw and stayed to the grim death...

No idea if that makes sense or not as i have flu and cant see straight, but i still think its closer to being non-standard that plain wrong... try playing two tables of TD and making split second decisions whilst explaining every one and see how you do [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-17-2007, 04:04 PM
palman palman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 497
Default Re: This can\'t be right? 30/60 2-7 *move to other poker please*

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
TT, Jackel made the 98 on the first draw, so there's only 2 draws left. I'd keep the 9 too. On top of being an equity favorite, the villain might fold some crappy 8 draw if Jackal pats.

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought about this some more and whilst its not something id do hardly ever (and said was debatable at that moment in the vid) i still dont really mind it against a maniac in a video aimed at giving beginners straightforward decisions. Of couse 98 is an equity favourite here but i tend to think its a money loser since the guy is so crazy you have to call down with 98 if he crs the turn (which will happen a lot) or leads the river, but cant extract much value yourself. On the otherhand, drawing makes your future decisions much easier and with position i dont think you lose out on much equity overall as you can extact when you improve. FWIW i dont think he folds a draw ever if you pat, this is a guy who capped T8 after the first draw and stayed to the grim death...

No idea if that makes sense or not as i have flu and cant see straight, but i still think its closer to being non-standard that plain wrong... try playing two tables of TD and making split second decisions whilst explaining every one and see how you do [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly not a problem if you do it occassionally. You're in position, you break or even fold if he c/r the 2nd draw and fold for a bet at the end. You're going to be taking this line with so many hands that you will call a bet at the end that you'll quickly find out if he's capable of bluffing into you on the end here. People rarely bluff into you on the end if you draw 1 then pat right away. And if they do you'll find out in about 20 minutes.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-18-2007, 01:06 PM
InWithTheBest InWithTheBest is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 244
Default Re: This can\'t be right? 30/60 2-7 *move to other poker please*

I would never keep the 9 here on first draw when you both draw 1. How could you possibly make money long term doing this? Your just a slight favorite to win if 1 more BB is going in total in the next two streets, if he comes alive we are losing.
Empiron would check raise the turn with a clean 9, but will not donk-bluff the river. So we may of kept this 9 as an "equity-favorite" just to fold the river or to fold the turn because we don't know if we can profitably break this hand. Ugly spot to get pat, the turn will be much easier and profitable to play if you draw.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-18-2007, 02:43 PM
Seb86 Seb86 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 215
Default Re: This can\'t be right? 30/60 2-7 *move to other poker please*

Where can I find the video please ?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-18-2007, 07:29 PM
palman palman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 497
Default Re: This can\'t be right? 30/60 2-7 *move to other poker please*

[ QUOTE ]
I would never keep the 9 here on first draw when you both draw 1. How could you possibly make money long term doing this? Your just a slight favorite to win if 1 more BB is going in total in the next two streets, if he comes alive we are losing.
Empiron would check raise the turn with a clean 9, but will not donk-bluff the river. So we may of kept this 9 as an "equity-favorite" just to fold the river or to fold the turn because we don't know if we can profitably break this hand. Ugly spot to get pat, the turn will be much easier and profitable to play if you draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't call a c/r because you figure you're drawing dead often enough, isn't that all the reason to keep the 9? villian has a tough time playing a 9 here if he catches it on the 2nd draw after you pat. And it's easily profitable to keep the 9 here because you're about 50/50 to end up with the best hand and there was a cap predraw. you might be slightly -EV with your dark bet on the 2nd draw, but the size of the pot already more than makes up for that.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.