***yankees official offseason thread*****

[sylar]

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gimme a list of names you want me to compare him to (seriously)

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how about Canseco, Bonds, Kent, Tony Gwynn, Cal Ripken Jr.? i have no idea if most of them played until 41.

[EMc]

I seriously think there are times when a lot of you guys forget this game is actually played.

[onlinebeginner]

arod cannot turn into an outfielder, he sucks ass at popups... somewhat of an anamoly but whatever


THIS IS GREAT NEWS, I still can't believe he opted out in the first place

[Triumph36]

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gimme a list of names you want me to compare him to (seriously)

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i think this is nearly impossible. seeing as fitness is better now than it was several years ago, and a-rod being a great player, it's difficult to compare his career to anyone. offhand i'd say ripken but he wore himself down playing every game.

kbz your argument here stinks. i think the real question is, is a-rod's decline offset by the rise of young talent the yankees will be able to retain in future seasons by not having to trade for a miguel cabrera or similar player? and i think the answer to that almost certainly is yes. you're not considering alternatives - you're merely saying 'well 6 years down the road 1b average hitter etc. etc.', without considering the ramifications of giving up top prospects.

[sylar]

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ESPN sportnation poll:

Who would you rather have: A-Rod or Eckstein!!!!!!!

67.9% Alex Rodriguez
32.1% David Eckstein



1/3 OF THE NATION IS RETARDED. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

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FJM addresses this poll today.

also, while defending DEck (as compared to ARod), Buster Olney today essentially implies that David Eckstein supplies his team with steroids.

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You could move him around, give him days off when he had a nagging injury, and always inject energy into your team -- like a sixth man in basketball.


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[onlinebeginner]

wait did mariano turn down 3 years 45 mil?

[fmxda]

The thing people are ignoring with their analysis of A-Rod down the road is that

1) You cannot sign a top free agent in his 30's for just a few years. The player rightfully gets to leverage his good next few years for the worse production at the end of his career.

2) You are not looking at the expected "stream of payments" that A-Rod will provide the Yankees. Look at this free agent class, it will be hard for the Yankees to get this sort of frontloaded offensive production (i.e. the next few years) without signing A-Rod. Trading prospects for Miguel Cabrera, etc. ignores the fact that it is probably a bigger loss in EV 5-6 years down the line when you don't have Hughes/Kennedy/Cano or whoever compared to A-Rod not "earning" his paycheck.

[Franchise 60]

^^^

[Kneel B4 Zod]

ok, this ended up really ugly and maybe not so useful, but I did it, so I'm going to post it!

this is the top 10 hitters ever (by .eqa) + Arod, by age. I wanted to show the aging affect visually, but maybe there is too much data to show visually.

there are old guys here, but also modern players like Frank Thomas, Bonds, Manny, and McGwire.

Ruth has peaks and valleys, but at 36 he hits a wall and tumbles. Williams is very impressive; maintaining his performance until the end. Bonds is a gigantic outlier, as his late 30's are way better than any earlier period. The Big Hurt had a historically great mid 20's, but he settled into a .310 guy - I think he represents the best case scenario for Arod as a hitter. Manny has been very close to Arod as a hitter; whether or not his fall this year was a downyear or aging remains to be seen. Gehrig is a unique case. Mantle was a good hitter at 36, but that was his last. McGwire was great right until 37, then he was gone (again, special case).

I guess the point is that Arod is behind all of these guys as a hitter. Bonds, Ruth, Williams and Mcgwire all improved in their mid 30's and a couple others didn't decline too poorly, but to keep performing at an elite level into your mid 30's is extremely rare. it's much more likely that your hit a wall at some point and go away.



before this year PECOTA projected him to be a .307 eqa hitter by age 33. if he is playing 1b by then, or shortly thereafter, that would make him about the 7th best 1b in the league (defense aside). he's be a good player, but position adjustment considered, no longer a great one. but he still might be the highest paid player in the league.

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kbz your argument here stinks. i think the real question is, is a-rod's decline offset by the rise of young talent the yankees will be able to retain in future seasons by not having to trade for a miguel cabrera or similar player? and i think the answer to that almost certainly is yes. you're not considering alternatives - you're merely saying 'well 6 years down the road 1b average hitter etc. etc.', without considering the ramifications of giving up top prospects.

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the trouble is actually that YOU are only considering next year, and not the long term health of the franchise. it's not necessarily the best strategy to go full out in an attempt to win the WS every year - you need to consider the affect that dead money and dead roster spots eventually have on your ability to build a team.

the choices aren't a) bring back Arod or b) trade Joba and Hughes for Cabrera. you could sign Mike Lowell, who is a decent .300 eqa guy and + defender, for 4 years at 50% of Arod money. he won't be as good as Arod, but you also don't need to make a commitment well into someones decline years. or, you don't need to sign a big $ FA at all. you can decide that its in your best long terms interest to go with neither Arod nor Cabrera nor Lowell, and just bring back an average guys like Betemit to be your 3b. this won't win you more games next year, but it does leave you a whole lot more flexible for next year/s.

the trouble, as Nate says, is that fans are probably not willing to tolerate a rebuilding year, even though this may be the best long term decision. there is a big money team with depth & youth in your own division, and the Indians will be very bit as good as next year as well. even with Arod back the Yankees are the 3rd best team in the AL.

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1) You cannot sign a top free agent in his 30's for just a few years. The player rightfully gets to leverage his good next few years for the worse production at the end of his career.

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but there is no rule saying you need to sign a free agent in his 30's. there are other options

[rwperu34]

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Ahhh don't give him more than 2 years... AHHHHHH

seriously he will most likely be very mediocre as a closer in 2010

37 over 2

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Who cares? There's no salary cap.

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because if he's under contract he's the closer... 2010 he won't be that great (in all likely hood)

did u ever read my post... your post backed up my point without you even realizing it

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If Rivera is throwing meatballs and getting shelled, do you really think he's going to be the closer in 2010? It's the same thing w/ Posada. They gave him a 4th year in the contract. Do you really think he will be catching 130 games a year when he is 40? Of course not. But in order to have both of them for the next 2 years, the Yankees had to pay the piper.

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what if he's not throwing meatballs... what if he's slightly below leauge average closer on the books for 15 mil... he'll still be the closer and it will be very frustrating...theres no way they demote him from closer as long as he keeps his E.R.A under 7 (if he was that bad, he'd prolly just retire) if he was that bad, he'd prolly just retire

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Exactly.
Personally, as a Yankee fan; I don't give a rat's ass how much they make. They can pay Jeter $5/game and Shelley Duncan $500,000,000. Just as long as they have the best possible team on the field.

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you have no reading comprehension at all.... I wanted to pay him more per year, but for two years... It is worth it to pay a little more and not commit to him for 2010.... this would give the yankees a better chance to have a better team on the field... and hey if he's still lookin like mariano come november 2009... extend his contract another year... by signing him to a 3 year deal you are committing to him being the closer in 2010... this POTENTIALLY could be HORRIBLE

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I doubt Rivera will be as bad as Joe Borkowski. As long as they have a true ace setting him up, things will be OK even if Rivera is getting all the saves with an ERA of 5.00.