How to play with ante ........ ?

[begoaspo]

Im playing alot of 10/45 and 24/45 at Full Tilt and doing pretty well , blind structure there is with no ante !

but how importend is it to steal with SC if you are down to
15 BB or less in guarentees ?


yesterday I played the 17.500 guarentee :
played round about avarage (down to 200 players )
could double up twice and was top 5 (down to 100 players)
so everybody was in the money and people started to get very aggro ,
I doubled up some small stacks and my stack getting down very quick :
New table !!
70 players left
I had 12 BB
BB had about 16 BB
avarege was 21 BB

holding TJs , is this a push or should I wait for a better spot ( and let me blinding down under 10 BB ) ?

btw : Huckleberry Seed was at the same table , he shoved t7s UTG+1 and get called by 3 people holding : JJ / QQ / AK/ .... he flopped the straight ....

[acbom]

With ante's you probably have an M of 5 and Q of 1/2, so you really want to steal here. Note that without the ante your M = 8. In that case you could still push, but it's a more agressive play. SC are excellent for stealing, much better then medium aces.

With a SC this good and M and Q like this, I like going ai from ep, but if you slightly change the conditions, you have to take position into account (how many people to act behind you).

The fact that you are at a new table is good, you might get a little more credit with your first two pushes or so.

The fact that the BB has 16 BB is good, this is usually the kind of stack that doesn't call you with A8 or so.

Nice for Huck that he flopped a straight... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[yNnOs]

Not sure about your position, so I assume you're in the SB and everyone folds. I'd call in the small blind, or make a raise to 3x BB. I think you can still fold to a reraise; after all, you'll be under ten soon anyway right?

Huck Seed = sick.

[begoaspo]

thanx so far ...

I was cut off and 7 people at the table

Button :18 BB
SB :25 BB
BB :16 BB

[acbom]

From the sb you can push with JTs with 20 bb and probably more (SC rankings in NLHE theory and practice).

If you open raise you get 9 to 15 on a call. That's only a fold if you're sure he has an overpair or has you dominated and you can't be sure. He'll probably push with 22+, Ax etc. Raising and intending to fold to a shove is just weak.

[levAA]

To the hand:

When antes kick in it's better to calculate in "true BB" - there is a very good post from bond regarding this issue - you can find it here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1

So usually (if the table is not very loose) it should be alright to push from the CO with 12BB with JTs as you will be down to about 7 "true BBs).

[acbom]

I read Bond's post - I like them all - but I don't really see, what the advantage is of true BB above Magril's M. They work the same, except that you have to do more calculating with odd numbers in Bond's variant. Why take the different option if it yields the same result? As a serious tournament player, you have to work a lot with either M or 'true BB', so IMO it's worth the investment to learn to think in M. Without M you might not realize that stealing succesfully here increases your stack with 20 %.
But maybe it's just a matter of taste. I didn't really try it the other way around, because I'm so used to it.

anyway: be more agressive with ante's then you would be without.

[Rocco]

I open-push JTs from CO all day with 12BB's...

[levAA]

[ QUOTE ]
I read Bond's post - I like them all - but I don't really see, what the advantage is of true BB above Magril's M. They work the same, except that you have to do more calculating with odd numbers in Bond's variant. Why take the different option if it yields the same result? As a serious tournament player, you have to work a lot with either M or 'true BB', so IMO it's worth the investment to learn to think in M. Without M you might not realize that stealing succesfully here increases your stack with 20 %.
But maybe it's just a matter of taste. I didn't really try it the other way around, because I'm so used to it.

anyway: be more agressive with ante's then you would be without.

[/ QUOTE ]

Example:

Full table at PS - level 16 blinds 2k/4k, antes 400

Your stack is 60k

M=stack/blinds+antes=60/9,6= 6,25
True BB=(blinds+antes)*2 / 3=(9,6*2)/3=6,4 - so you got 9,375 true BB

If you calculate the M from the "true BB" - 60/(6,4+3,2)= 6,25

You see - there is no difference, just two different ways to express the same thing - just do what you are used to.

A slight advantage of the true BB is, as the numbers are higher than M, that they are somehow more differented - but I think thats it.

[jase]

[ QUOTE ]
I doubled up some small stacks and my stack getting down very quick

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an important point. There is some great discussion on this in Tysen Streib's book, 'Kill Everyone', where he talks about your purpose not being to eliminate people, but to build chips. I would check your play of these hands and see whether you were calling with hands that you shouldn't have.

Note that this advice differs from Harrington's who says that he'll call a push with almost any two cards if it's not going to cost him less than 10% of his stack. I actually prefer the 'Kill Everyone' advice.

Didn't really help answer your question (!), but hopefully this prevents losing part of your stack at this point in future.