4.4/180 crappy bb hand, bottom pair

DeuceSeven · #1 11-07-2007, 02:54 PM

Villain was 43/19 with infinite flop aggression only 16 hands. Generally when I see decent stack that limps utg and has these stats, I categorize these type of players that feel they have enough chips to limp, even oop, and think they can take pots away postflop. I don't give these type of guys post flop bets any respect. How do you like my line:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG (t10480)
UTG+1 (t6391)
MP1 (t9915)
MP2 (t1701)
CO (t11238)
Button (t12671)
SB (t8500)
Hero (t7344)

Villain limps pf. He must suck, based on his stats I put him on any two broadway, 33-77, A2-AT.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t400, 6 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (t975) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

OK, villain didn't bet. I can eliminate a set, or a pair because most players, even bad ones would at least bet with the drawy board. If a non scary card hits the turn I plan on check/raising, because I'm pretty sure he's going to bet with nothing or fold worse hands if I lead out.
Turn: (t975) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t400, Hero raises to t2000, UTG calls t1600.

The J wasn't the greatest card, I didn't want to see an A or a club. I'm probably check/folding. Wait, he only bet about 40% of the pot, he's aggressive, probably bad limping oop. I'm going to raise him. [censored] he called.

River: (t4975) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t2800, Hero calls t2800.

That wasn't the worst card in the deck. I'm probably going to check/fold. Villain bets a little more then half the pot. I don't think he has tp, I think he would have bet at least 600 into 975 on the turn. This doesn't feel like a monster, I feel he would bet more with a monster since I showed strength on the turn. I think he might check 3rd pair. On the river he either has a busted draw, tp, or absolutely nothing. I just can't fold, I'm going with my read he's got tp or nothing, mostly nothing, I call.

Final Pot: t10575

pokerfreak_21 · #2 11-07-2007, 03:01 PM

im a nit and would never take this line, but as played i shutdown after he calls our c/r on turn, i think he could be limpimg hands like JTs and KJo....but maybe worse hands that include a suited face card

ChipSpeak · #3 11-07-2007, 04:00 PM

I think our stack prevents us from playing this way, this looks more like a 100+bb line. Maybe a bit of fancy play syndrome here, we are really pushing this OOP not having a clue where we're at, going against the grain of showing them a hand in position, which is tried and true. We are basing our entire stack on reading his betting pattern, which he may or may not even be considering.
As played, too many hands are beating us here, I don't mind firing multiple barrels at these guys, but at 43/9 you should be including the JT,KJ,AJ variations, and any pp is beating us. I don't hate your repop, but we're either jamming or >>> shutting down after, I think the river call was kinda heroish.

postoakpoker · #4 11-07-2007, 05:02 PM

your deuce only has a 9 kicker, if you had 2A then you could confidently take this line. we all know that kickers are important, but people look at A2 and similar hands all wrong. they're glass empty people who say "your ace only has a 2 kicker." well i'm a glass full kinda guy and I say "my 2 has an ace kicker."

DeuceSeven · #5 11-07-2007, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
your deuce only has a 9 kicker, if you had 2A then you could confidently take this line. we all know that kickers are important, but people look at A2 and similar hands all wrong. they're glass empty people who say "your ace only has a 2 kicker." well i'm a glass full kinda guy and I say "my 2 has an ace kicker."

[/ QUOTE ]

Would this guy call a check raise with a 2, then bet the river? Had he led out for 2/3 pot on the flop or turn I fold. I find that a lot of these loose bad, small stakes players, with big stacks late in mtts like to splash around alot and like to take pots away after the flop.

Dunkman · #6 11-07-2007, 05:40 PM

Your turn raise is a bluff, you have to know that. Maybe pairing your 2 gives you enough to call his turn bet (or make a really thin river vb if the turn checks through) but it sure doesn't allow you to raise the turn for value. I'm half expecting you to show a bluff and be like "aha I told you guys" but whatever, raising the turn then calling the river is just spew. If you really think the guy is just fos then call a turn bet and call again on most rivers. But don't raise here expecting to get floated and have the guy bluff at you on the river...this is really bad.

BlueEcho · #7 11-07-2007, 07:31 PM

I agree with Dunkman this is poorly played from the turn on. At most your line should be check/call turn and check/call river. This villian has a J here more than he has air IMO. People love to limp J9,JT,QJ,KJ and even AJ type hands utg when they have chips to spare.

DeuceSeven · #8 11-07-2007, 08:11 PM

I actually felt the turn was a value raise, I figured he'd fold the turn. I think I'm having too much fun playing post flop poker, last month I made the switch from turbo sngs to mtts. My read was correct villain had KT, it doesn't make my play good just because of the results. I agree with the check/call keep the pot small idea. On the turn I was trying to get villain to bet, then I raised to protect my hand. Guilty as charged for fps. Of course I don't post the hands where I'm wrong [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].