Razz 2/4 - did I play this pretty straight up?

[jbrennen]

Razz ($2/$4), Ante $0.40, Bring-In $0.50 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.20 SB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 2: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls

4th Street - (3.45 SB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (2.73 BB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (4.73 BB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

River - (6.73 BB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 8: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___checks

Total pot: (6.73 BB - $26.90)



Seat 8 apparently thought I played this "painfully stupid"... This was on Full Tilt, so at showdown he may have thought my hand went T-T-5-T-2-A-3, but this is someone against whom I've played almost 1,000 hands on Full Tilt in the last year, so he should know better... Maybe he was just tilting.

The only place I could even imagine playing differently would be on 4th street, but I figure that I need to bet there in order to preserve any sort of fold equity on subsequent streets.

[2461Badugi]

Bet the river. Otherwise fine.

[ceegee]

i stop betting on 4 when your steal failed. Maybe if you didn't pair your 10 and showed it.

[jbrennen]

[ QUOTE ]
i stop betting on 4 when your steal failed.

[/ QUOTE ]

What steal? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I had the best hand on 3rd street.

[kerze]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the river. Otherwise fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious why you and electrical suggest betting the river. I feel I must be really missing something here.

Aren't we betting the river to either (a) getting him to fold a better hand or (b) getting him to call with a worst hand.

Villain may be a huge donkey, but I can't believe he isn't giving us credit for a made T on our A25T board when he calls 6th. He therefore must have his made J with 4 cards most likely under 7 (based on the 3rd/4th street action). A simulation will show that he has caught better than us about 50% of the time on 7th .

Now we need to ask, if he makes a 9 or better will he fold - I doubt it - he probably wouldn't like calling a 9 but will do it. If he bricks will he call - I doubt it because I think he has to believe he have made our T. I think there is one hand that he will call that we can beat - if he catches the case T, he would probably call reluctantly.

Again, I am probably missing something here. Maybe he does call down his J if he misses. Maybe he only has a made Q on the 6th with a plan to make a move on 7th. Maybe he is even a bigger donk than I think he is.

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm curious why you and electrical suggest betting the river. I feel I must be really missing something here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Given that he called fifth, he's calling the river. The only possible reason for him to call fifth is that he thinks we're totally FOS, and he won't have changed that opinion now.

Plus check-folding sucks.

[chucky]

I dont bet 4th because villian will not fold 4th. Betting will make getting villian out on 5th or 6th more difficult because it bloats the pot.

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting will make getting villian out on 5th or 6th more difficult because it bloats the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain ought to fold a brick fifth regardless of how big the pot is. The fact that this guy didn't, and we have 1000 hands with him, might lead me to hope for the free card on fourth. But it's a pretty unusual player who can call against a ten-high board when showing QJ4.

[kerze]

You've played with me at $1/$2 and $2/$4 so you probably know to take what I say with a grain of salt (especially after my last $2/$4 session).

It looks to me on 3rd that he was 2 cards under 7 down and limps with only low card out and then calls because you could be stealing and . If that's the case he is about a 64% favorite on 4th (assuming the 4 doesn't pair him).

I understand the bet, because you are trying to represent 2 babies in the hole and if you hit good and he hits bad on 5th then you might get him to fold with a bet. That happens on 5th and he calls your bet even though you are now probably a 63% favorite (given credit for two wheel cards down). I've played against this type before and they call everything down if they have 3 wheel cards on 4th. By 6th you are a 62% favorite assuming he has two wheel cards and the 2 hasn't paired him - I think you have to bet here. I hate the situation in 7 but all you can do is check/fold (the only thing I think he would bet that we could beat is a worse T high but that is unlikley because we have 3 of the T's)

I've been seeing more an more of this lately where I have a board like yours and my opponent has the brick/baby/brick/baby pattern on their board. So I'm not sure if you even have any fold equity against these types of players because they will call everything down. There's nothing worse than losing with (A2)36T2J vs (xx)K5K4x.

I don't know if any of this makes sense or helps. I certainly don't think you're play was painfully stupid.

[blumpkin]

anyone who says to check 4th is clueless and needs to reevaluate their game in every variant of 7 card stud