I have a problem...

[bennyhana]

Thanks guys.

What do you guys get out of my graph? anything? It seems like it has bigger rises and falls than most I've seen. Hell, even more than my older ones. Do you think I am making big pots with weak hands, or just losing big pots? I think I'm not taking enough free cards when offered, but I also think my bluffing frequency is off. Sample size? I've just never had a run with that many big ups and downs before.

Like I said, this is my first 300. Anybody know of any good 300bb downswing threads?

[DBSpecial]

Maybe this will make you feel better.

[OziBattler]

[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, this is my first 300. Anybody know of any good 300bb downswing threads?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ben, check the wiki (I havent read them in any detail recently but theres at least a compiliation there).

[Smurph64]

Ulkis, those stats are so easy to beat for anyone paying any attention at all.

At fr there are a ton of opportunities you are missing here.
Raise or fold mentality is a good training exercise but I guarantee you are folding way too many here.

Kerowo is right take a couple days off and then play in some lower limit donkfests and do some aggression exercises.

These are some of the training exercises I did to learn how to improve my understanding of things:

1. Raise five hands in a row starting with the UTG+1 position and continue till you get to the dealer button. Slow down if necessary if you meet aggression but otherwise continue to bet each street.

1a) Sit down and raise first five hands you have. Then play your normal game. Leave table after 3 orbits. Go to new table rinse/repeat.

2. Play two orbits of raise/fold. Raise/bet any 5 card draw + on the flop. IE raise J9o with a flop of AK9 or Q10o with a flop of 78J. Next two orbits try to go to showdown once per orbit.

3. Raise any two from the button if you have 2 limpers or less in front of you or 1 raiser in front for an entire session.

4. Raise any pocket pair preflop and go to showdown with it if there is less than 3 in the pot.

5. RFI any hand where you have the 8 of spades in your hand 10 times before you quit. So you may have 2 clubs 8 spades UTG but raise it anyways. Bet like you have AKo. Play close attention to the next 5 hands you are in afterwards if the table is the same.

6. Play any two from the bb for an entire session, raise it if its limped to you OR donk the flop.


You may lose a lot of bb during these exercises, but I doubt it. Obviously do this at a lower level than you are currently, .02/.04 or .05/.10.

Plan ahead, look for a table that you think may be vulnerable to any of these situations. (do you pick a wild table or a loose table or a passive table?)

Where do you sit at the table where you can lose the least and win the most?

Take copious notes during these experiments on your feelings during play and your table read before sitting down. Analysis the session after you finish it as a whole, rather than a hand by hand situation.

Write down your thought process on each hand you play in before you forget. Make sure you allot enough time to do this post game analysis without distractions immediately after the session.

I did each of these experiments many times and they have proven to be invaluable. You can discuss this with others if you wish but its not necessary if you are honest with your analysis.

After a period of time, go back at it and see if you can find any new spots that come up that you can exploit for value.

For me these experiments allowed me to understand the principles of playing the table rather than playing my cards. It allowed me to get a better idea of how table selelction can make a huge difference and how to defend.

It allowed me to recognize the motiviations of other players better so that I could read their actions more accurately.

Obviously you are going to make a lot of mistakes here. But that is the thing. Making mistakes on purpose and remembering how you recover from them teaches you a lot about yourself and why you play poker. It teaches you how to recognize other players mistakes as well.

[bennyhana]

[ QUOTE ]
Ulkis, those stats are so easy to beat for anyone paying any attention at all.

At fr there are a ton of opportunities you are missing here.
Raise or fold mentality is a good training exercise but I guarantee you are folding way too many here.

Kerowo is right take a couple days off and then play in some lower limit donkfests and do some aggression exercises.

These are some of the training exercises I did to learn how to improve my understanding of things:

1. Raise five hands in a row starting with the UTG+1 position and continue till you get to the dealer button. Slow down if necessary if you meet aggression but otherwise continue to bet each street.

1a) Sit down and raise first five hands you have. Then play your normal game. Leave table after 3 orbits. Go to new table rinse/repeat.

2. Play two orbits of raise/fold. Raise/bet any 5 card draw + on the flop. IE raise J9o with a flop of AK9 or Q10o with a flop of 78J. Next two orbits try to go to showdown once per orbit.

3. Raise any two from the button if you have 2 limpers or less in front of you or 1 raiser in front for an entire session.

4. Raise any pocket pair preflop and go to showdown with it if there is less than 3 in the pot.

5. RFI any hand where you have the 8 of spades in your hand 10 times before you quit. So you may have 2 clubs 8 spades UTG but raise it anyways. Bet like you have AKo. Play close attention to the next 5 hands you are in afterwards if the table is the same.

6. Play any two from the bb for an entire session, raise it if its limped to you OR donk the flop.


You may lose a lot of bb during these exercises, but I doubt it. Obviously do this at a lower level than you are currently, .02/.04 or .05/.10.

Plan ahead, look for a table that you think may be vulnerable to any of these situations. (do you pick a wild table or a loose table or a passive table?)

Where do you sit at the table where you can lose the least and win the most?

Take copious notes during these experiments on your feelings during play and your table read before sitting down. Analysis the session after you finish it as a whole, rather than a hand by hand situation.

Write down your thought process on each hand you play in before you forget. Make sure you allot enough time to do this post game analysis without distractions immediately after the session.

I did each of these experiments many times and they have proven to be invaluable. You can discuss this with others if you wish but its not necessary if you are honest with your analysis.

After a period of time, go back at it and see if you can find any new spots that come up that you can exploit for value.

For me these experiments allowed me to understand the principles of playing the table rather than playing my cards. It allowed me to get a better idea of how table selelction can make a huge difference and how to defend.

It allowed me to recognize the motiviations of other players better so that I could read their actions more accurately.

Obviously you are going to make a lot of mistakes here. But that is the thing. Making mistakes on purpose and remembering how you recover from them teaches you a lot about yourself and why you play poker. It teaches you how to recognize other players mistakes as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is badass and I'm totally down. thanks man.

pm sent.

[Smurph64]

I have had I think 3 300 bb downswings and one for 450 bb and one for 400 BB in 130k hands of limit poker. During that same time I have had two 1600 bb upswings using the same criteria of looking at the hands using charts.

But I didn't know I had any of those swings until long after I was through them. I rmemember tilting a lot during one of them and studying it afterwards and seeing tons of leaks and stupidity but at the time I thought everyone else was just lucky as hell.

Of the 450 Bb downswing I think I tossed 150 bb away because of tilt in various ways - Playing too long when I became numb to losses, playing with ego against dolts, Playing scared and timid or too loose and abrasive at others. More to the point I played a lot of hands like that even when I was recovering, but this time I was getting lucky.

Its dangerous if you play without concentrating and playing solid logical poker. So you just have to look at each session and ask yourself the following question:

Did I play that session to the best of my ability and understanding?

If you can answer yes honestly then I guarantee the downswings will reduce in size.

You will still have them but your recovery will be much faster.

Remember each hand is totally independent of the ones before it, so swings in reality are figments of our imaginations.

If you have good bankroll management, it won't matter.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
lame.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously. loljellybeans?

As to this "leak", Benny, it's really read/player-dependent. I probably go 60/40 bet/check on this turn, knowing that usually if you check the turn you're going to have to call one on the river. Tight opp, I'm more likely to bet, loose/crazy opp I'm more likely to check behind and call one.

[Ulkis]

Thank you Smurph64, I'll follow your sound advice.

[CORed]

Most of the time, you should give up on the turn here. If your opponents respond to this by bluffing the turn with position, you can counter by betting the flop, check-raising the turn with some of you decent (TPGK and better) hands.

[KaatzMeow]

Smufph nice post.

Great thread since I am riding a downswing too. This is what I came up with.

Every day I play a minimum 50 hands.

I have to quit when I loss 20 BB in the session (1 time).

I can play on if I am plus but no more than 100 hands.

I then review that session hand by hand which includes playing the hands from an opponents seat.

If up for the day, I can do another session after analysing the previous session. If I am a loser in the previous session, I have to wait to tomorrow.

Am I missing some opportunities by not playing longer at a table? I am talking about Online .25/.50 limit @ FTP. I want to improve so can this work?