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  #1  
Old 07-22-2007, 10:17 PM
Matt Flynn Matt Flynn is offline
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Default Professional No-Limit Hold \'em Volume 1 Review Thread

Hi everyone,

This'll be the thread for reviews of PNL1 only. If you have questions about how to get the book or comments about the back cover, please post in the other thread.

A general comment: PNL1 is not directed at winning pros, although some advanced concepts are discussed. Our goal was to turn new or marginal players into successful mid-limit pros. PNL1 is the start. There are a great many topics left to come in future books.

Here are all the reviews from the other thread:


From ajloeffl:

[ QUOTE ]
I've read through the Basics chapters and have to say I am impressed so far. It is concise enough not to be a chore and still contains a lot of good information. I have high hopes for the rest of the book which I will read over the next couple days.

[/ QUOTE ]

Next from ajloefl:

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I am about half way through the book and I don't think I have seen any other errors other than the one mentioned.

A lot of the information in this book has not been seen in such a user friendly format in any of the bazillion poker books I have read. This is a very high quality book with critical concepts for mastering "stack limit" holdem I can already give this book a wayyyyyyyyyy thumbs up and I still have half left to read.

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Question from BigSlick79053:

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So what exactly does this mean about the Sklansky and Miller "No limit Hold'em Theory" book 2+2 published last year? Why was there a need for this new book? Did I waste my money on their book last year?

[/ QUOTE ]

ajloeffl responds:

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You hardly wasted your money on that book. It covered many good topics to help your no limit game. If you think you wasted your money on it, then you didn't read it and understand it and apply it. There is money involved in this game and paying 30 bucks for a book that can make you thousands should hardly be considered wasting money.

This new book is a different book covering different topics. If you think one book can cover this game, then you are sorely mistaken.

[/ QUOTE ]

From FieryJustice:

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So I just spent the last 8 hours or so reading the book. The first half or so of the book was pretty basic stuff that I already knew, but I could see how it could be helpful to lesser experienced players. I really did learn a ton from the second half of the book, which will hopefully make me lots of money in the future. Im sure it will either do that or make me go broke. I am a little concerned that the book only gives examples of how to play hands like AK when you make top pair. What about the times where you get a SPR of 4 or so then miss. Im sure betting is still what is going to be suggested in a later volume, but that sort of puts you near being committed. Hopefully this will be addressed in a later volume. All in all though, I have learned more from this book than I have from any other in the recent past.

[/ QUOTE ]

FieryJustice tries out SPR:

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I figured id reply and let everyone know that if tonights results were indication of the future, I will be broke within a month.

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Matt Flynn responds to FieryJustice's question:

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What about the times where you get a SPR of 4 or so then miss. Im sure betting is still what is going to be suggested in a later volume, but that sort of puts you near being committed. Hopefully this will be addressed in a later volume. All in all though, I have learned more from this book than I have from any other in the recent past.

[/ QUOTE ]


we ran out of room. Sunny wrote that discussion long before volume 1 was submitted, but it wouldn't fit. also, we will visit it again under c-betting, under bluffing, and under some other topics.

spr of 4 would not change your c-betting frequency much vs. high spr if you took initiative with AK preflop. don't commit normally.

in some games you would go all-in with AK there on occasion as part of line defense and balancing, or if you sensed weakness or expected to be against a weak range. you want fold equity in those situations / get low pairs out and so normally arrange to fire the last shot. sometimes, though, it works better to fire a big first shot.

opponent counters your c-bet by raise bluffing - interesting spot for a minraise whether he has it or not. the game just gets tough then.


sorry first session didn't get the monies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sunny Mehta responds to FieryJustice:

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Hi FieryJustice,

Thanks for the kind words, and good observations re: AK. We do make constant mention of the steal equity points throughout the book (in fact, even regarding specifically AK i.e. - page 208: "You will make top pair or better about 1 time in 3. The other times you may steal. If you can make money stealing, you sometimes want to get more money in preflop. We explain those exceptions in Making Adjustments starting on page 234."), but as Matt mentioned, we'll have much more to say about the whole topic in Volume Two.

[/ QUOTE ]

FieryJustice responds:

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I suppose my problem with it is that if you are stealing you cross your committment point or whatever it is called. Like if you to reraise with AK and get the SPR to 4, you generally have about 1/10th or so of your 100bb stack in. If you miss the flop, you have to bet another 15 or 20bbs, which would put basically 1/3 of your stack in. I think you guy ssaid that was bad but that could mean apply only if you have a made hand like tp. Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it. I cant wait til volume 2.

[/ QUOTE ]


Sunny Mehta responds:

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Well, you're right that a bet there would cross you over the Commitment Threshold, but remember (from the Exceptions on making bets when at the Threshold):

"You might make a large bet if you are bluffing or semibluffing." (page 152)

[/ QUOTE ]

XxGodJrxX asked:

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I was thinking of getting NLTAP and PNL. Reading the comments on this thread is making me think that NLTAP is old and busted next to this book. Should I bother getting NLTAP? Maybe read PNL first and then NLTAP later?

[/ QUOTE ]

HSB responded:

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

I was thinking of getting NLTAP and PNL. Reading the comments on this thread is making me think that NLTAP is old and busted next to this book. Should I bother getting NLTAP? Maybe read PNL first and then NLTAP later?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read PNL yet but I found NLHTAP to be a valuable read.

[/ QUOTE ]


Sunny and I will follow the thread to answer any questions. Thanks everyone for taking an interest in the book.

Matt


EDIT: Here are some other threads to also take a look at:

discussion thread in SSNL forum

discussion thread in uNL

Full Ring forum thread


Card Player Magazine review
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  #2  
Old 07-23-2007, 01:03 AM
ajloeffl ajloeffl is offline
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Default Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em Volume 1 Review Thread

I do agree with your "general comment", Matt. This book will do a good job of helping to turn marginal players into successful ones. The ideas presented of REM, commitment, and stack to pot ratios do an excellent job of describing how to eliminate some huge flaws I have seen in other players. As a mid limit pro, I was already aware of these concepts in a vague form, but as described they really helped me understand them in theory and practice.

I still have about 40 pages left in the book to read and I'll post some more questions/comments after that.

I really look forward to the next installment of this series.
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  #3  
Old 07-23-2007, 11:41 AM
allyasia allyasia is offline
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Default Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em Volume 1 Review Thread

REM,?
commitment, i understand this
stack to pot ratios, I understand this.
what's REM, and where can i find out about REM?
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  #4  
Old 07-23-2007, 11:49 AM
jojobinks jojobinks is offline
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Default Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em Volume 1 Review Thread

[ QUOTE ]
REM,?
commitment, i understand this
stack to pot ratios, I understand this.
what's REM, and where can i find out about REM?

[/ QUOTE ]

i suggest trying "professional no limit poker volume 1" by sunny mehta and matt flynn.
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  #5  
Old 07-23-2007, 12:03 PM
Matt Flynn Matt Flynn is offline
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Default Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em Volume 1 Review Thread

[ QUOTE ]
REM?

[/ QUOTE ]


Range, Equity, Maximize. It describes how to think through no-limit problems.

REM in PNL1 does not include second/third level thinking about ranges. Volume 2 has a lot about impressions of ranges including second/third level thinking and related topics.
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  #6  
Old 07-23-2007, 12:28 PM
smbruin22 smbruin22 is offline
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Default Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em Volume 1 Review Thread

really looking forward to this book, and i believe the #1 basic in no-limit is depth of stack and how to play certain hands (i.e. what stack level are all my chips going in with AA? except i guess for huge callers and amazing flop.... but is that general stack size 15BB, 35BB, 50 BB???)

i enjoy tournaments so looking forward to short-stack and shortish-stack advice. especially the whole relationship between getting paid and commitment to your hand....

basically looking for this stack size and this hand, you should be thinking XXXXXX... and sounds like this book will be excellent. surprisingly not that much stuff like this out there.
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  #7  
Old 07-23-2007, 12:31 PM
dafrk3in dafrk3in is offline
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Default Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em Volume 1 Review Thread

when is volume two coming out?
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  #8  
Old 07-23-2007, 01:27 PM
dthf90210 dthf90210 is offline
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Default Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em Volume 1 Review Thread

Wow. I received my PNL (along with How to Dominate and Sit 'n Go) already (thanks to Mike at ProfessionalPoker.com), and I'm in Boston right now visiting! My review upon skimming is that PNL looks like a damn good book. I would like to see 3 or 4 volumes, not 2, if the authors think they have that much to say. One volume alone could be all problems/examples like Harrington did. Examples like that are very helpful to the learning process. The other volumes could cover various aspects of FR and 6-max live and online. Just a thought. Can't wait for the next volume and for the Harrington cash books. Now I have to decide what order to read these books in . . .
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  #9  
Old 07-23-2007, 01:32 PM
dthf90210 dthf90210 is offline
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Default Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em Volume 1 Review Thread

Oh, for those of you who are still deprived, I would be willing to sell the entire set of three books for $1,000 total. Wait a minute! What is this typo on the fine print in the back! Refund please.
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  #10  
Old 07-23-2007, 03:10 PM
Matt Flynn Matt Flynn is offline
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Default Re: Professional No-Limit Hold \'em Volume 1 Review Thread

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to see 3 or 4 volumes, not 2, if the authors think they have that much to say.

[/ QUOTE ]

Much appreciated dthf! If we're still game for writing you'll see at least four.

We're trying to stay methodical for volume 2 but also give readers what they most want, like discussion of 6-max vs. full ring.

Let me know what you think of PNL1.
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