Weird KK hand Main Event - Page 3

s33w33d · #21 07-07-2007, 09:25 PM

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Anyways I ended up repopping to 5K but I think it's a mistake, the old guy has such a huge here most of the time and I'm putting myself in a spot to fold worse hands and get called by better I think.

So, I reraise to 5K, old guy calls pretty quickly, and Euro finally gets out. Flop Qxx rainbow, what's my plan?

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Calls that quickly? I guess he has T15K behind, but the pot is about T12K. I'd just fire for T9K or something. If he has AA or QQ, c'est la vie.

0evg0 · #22 07-07-2007, 10:06 PM

c/something flop

As for the nature of perceived ranges in FR, there's just an incredibly thin line that you need to take (if your goal is to play perfectly optimal poker, or near it) by 3betting some hands that are marginally -$EV so as to open up your 3betting range and make 3betting QQ+/AK even more +$EV than 3betting AQo UTG1 is -$EV.

It's an incredibly thin line and people end up totally overshooting the optimal 3bet frequency, or just end up taking shots in the dark - both of which end up terribly worse than just playing slightly exploitable and keeping a small EP 3bet range.

THEOSU · #23 07-07-2007, 11:17 PM

q high flop is about as bad a flop as you can get. i don't think the rest of his stack is getting in unless you're beat. i'd play to get to showdown, and you have to use your judgment to figure out how that's best achieved.

renodoc · #24 07-07-2007, 11:27 PM

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q high flop is about as bad a flop as you can get. i don't think the rest of his stack is getting in unless you're beat. i'd play to get to showdown, and you have to use your judgment to figure out how that's best achieved.

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I dunno. Some people think AQ is the nuts here. i agree, getting to a showdown cheap would be the way to go.

timex · #25 07-08-2007, 12:57 AM

FWIW, I don't understand how people can like 4betting here, unless your goal is to get another opponent to fold KK. After 4-betting in this spot, your hand has gone from reasonably under-repped to significantly over-repped.

Are live players at all tricky? Like could the old guy not 5-bet AA? Could he bet if checked to with AK?

I think that check folding this flop is not unreasonable at all, 4betting sucks so bad here.

timex · #26 07-08-2007, 12:58 AM

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q high flop is about as bad a flop as you can get. i don't think the rest of his stack is getting in unless you're beat. i'd play to get to showdown, and you have to use your judgment to figure out how that's best achieved.

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I dunno. Some people think AQ is the nuts here. i agree, getting to a showdown cheap would be the way to go.

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I don't think that AQ is anywhere near old guys 3-betting range, let alone his calling of a 4bet range.

Foucault · #27 07-08-2007, 01:28 AM

Timex owns this thread.

TheNewf · #28 07-08-2007, 02:38 AM

So I check intending to fold to most bets and he checks behind. Turn is a blank and we both check, which I think is pretty obv once we check flop. River is also a blank, value bet or just keep on checking?

stealthmunk · #29 07-08-2007, 02:48 AM

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FWIW, I don't understand how people can like 4betting here, unless your goal is to get another opponent to fold KK. After 4-betting in this spot, your hand has gone from reasonably under-repped to significantly over-repped.

Are live players at all tricky? Like could the old guy not 5-bet AA? Could he bet if checked to with AK?

I think that check folding this flop is not unreasonable at all, 4betting sucks so bad here.

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I normally agree with you timex but I think you are wrong here.

If you repop to 5k you can either
1. find out of old guy has AA and fold if he shoves and lose 5k in a sick cooler.
2. Have old guy fold QQ and get hu vs euro trash in position with KK
3. Have them both call and be fairly certain old guy does not have AA.

If you just call preflop I only like it if you are fairly certain old guy has AA and are set mining.

Edit: didn't see flop was posted....as i'm pretty sure this guys range is JJ-KK, AK. A flop check is pretty good and you should try to get to showdown. 4 betting pre isn't bad though.

0evg0 · #30 07-08-2007, 02:52 AM

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So I check intending to fold to most bets and he checks behind. Turn is a blank and we both check, which I think is pretty obv once we check flop. River is also a blank, value bet or just keep on checking?

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Knowing the actual board would help a ton in knowing the relative value of a check here because I'm definitely betting turn a good percentage (40-50?) of the time.