Top pair & nut flush draw in $1500 NL 6-max

[Eagles]

Nath,
I could see shoving as because we are OOP but in position its pretty bad.

Do you expect him to call with worse aces or worse draws?

Do you expect him to fold AQ, AK, Two pair or sets?

I'm not sure the answer but if you are shoving the answer to one of these questions needs to be yes.

[nath]

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I have an edge. I'm pressing it.

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that is terrible logic.

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No, it's really not. This entire thread is symptomatic of a bad trend among MTT posts and posters; namely, a desire to complicate simple decisions and wrap themselves up in the minutiae of easy problems so they can feel intellectually satisfied about progressing in their game even though they've done nothing to really improve it. Doing anything but jamming here in a desire to be crafty or to come up with a magical line that somehow commits worse draws but folds better aces is just... It's ridiculous.
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can you come up with a real reason for jamming

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WE HAVE TOP PAIR AND THE NUT FLUSH DRAW. WHAT THE [censored]. WHY ARE PEOPLE MAKING THIS HARD.

[nath]

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Nath,
I could see shoving as because we are OOP but in position its pretty bad.

Do you expect him to call with worse aces or worse draws?

Do you expect him to fold AQ, AK, Two pair or sets?

I'm not sure the answer but if you are shoving the answer to one of these questions needs to be yes.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't give a crap what he has, really. I'm jamming because I have a big draw. Why are so many of you acting like this is a foreign concept?

[Exitonly]

nath man, you're making some really awful arguments in this thread. Just having top pair and nut flush draw != raise all in. And just yelling at us over and over saying that we're overthinking it, for even considering other options, is pretty ridiculous.

edit: a shove seems like the best way to get him to fold a flush draw, also, weak aces. This is not good. I'm not saying a shove is bad, but it's not folding out better hands, and doesnt look like it's going to get a ton of value. I think other lines (reraising smaller, or calling) hsould be able to maximize value vs weaker hands better.

[nath]

Ok, I give up. I see everyone's point, but I just think spots like this in tournaments are relatively simple. It's not like we're super deep; in a sizable pot with a big draw and decent FE I move in virtually all the time.

[NoahSD]

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Ok, I give up. I see everyone's point, but I just think spots like this in tournaments are relatively simple. It's not like we're super deep; in a sizable pot with a big draw and decent FE I move in virtually all the time.

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But your decent FE comes from hands that you crush that will often put more money in if you just call.

Shoving here is soooo much worse than calling. I'm really surprised you don't see that.

[KingDan]

Nath I think making a smaller raise makes it a lot more likely for opponnent to do something stupid.

I can't think of any downside of making a smaller raise. He's less likely to fold a smaller draw. I think he's more much more likely to call/fold with a worse ace than to risk his TOURNEY LIFE on an allin.

[schwah]

i like timex's line best by far.

[Mench]

agree with nath 100%

[Exitonly]

Thanks, that really helps the discussion.

edit: did you not see that we were yelling at nath specifically for not defending himself and not because his line was necessarily wrong?