NL Bots on Full Tilt

[MrGatorade]

FTP has many limit hold'em bots too. linky http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1 I HATE BOTS.

-MrGatorade (Crazy Mike)

[Roger Mainfield]

I think another huge area for concern with bots is accountablity. A random fish returns from home and decides to play poker. If he has heard that he is playing a machine he won't want to deposit, any type of scandal will have drastic effects on fish depositing money. People don't mind losing to other people, a fish logs in high stakes and loses it to a pro, he thinks he was outsmarted or what not. Where as if he loses it or thinks he loses it to some computer program... he isn't gonna deposit there, and will quite possibly tell his friends/family.

And every cent that a bot wins is a dollar we could have, same with rake. If a table has 6 players, hero , 3 fish and 2 bots. That table would be way better with 5 fish and hero. Also rake, when fish sit there with a breakeven bot, the bot is still helping money come off the table in the form of rake, the more easy money floating around the better it is for 2p2.

My main area for concern is the Poker sites themselves. Maybe 10% of people really research the game, and to poker sites bots that sit and generate huge amounts of rake are better than normal players. In short they have no incentive to get rid of bots, and posts like FTPSean in this forum show that. The best medium for them is if they can convince us that there are no bots, whilst allowing the bots to take up lots of seats. In this 2p2'ers and poker sites have opposites incentives, and there is little we can do about it.

After reading most of this I am really undecided about whether these guys are bots. I can see some guy getting his 4 friends info and sending it in to ftp to "clear his name". But the more I think about it, 4-5 guys sitting in a room getting HUGE hands every month, never trying to improve their game, never adjusting is EXTREMELY far fetched to me. I also find the min bet evidence particularly damning. I personally have quit FTP because of this, I simply cannot believe that their situation is completely on the level.

[Hellmouth]

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found this webpage doing a google search...

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Welcome to Wednesday afternoon.

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From PokerPages player profile:

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Hobbies: Bot programming

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Now that's funny!!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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Favorite Movie: The Matrix, The Terminator, and Star Wars - Favorite characters: R2-D2 and C-3PO

His favorite characters are robots lol.

[Hellmouth]

Say you were to play only TT-AA pf and you were going to c-bet 100% of the time and you were going to felt any hand that was an overpair, set or better. Would you be able to get this kind of stat convergance?

I think that you would because you are only going to flop a set or over pair a fixed amount and you are getting it all in after that if you can.

If a simple set of guidelines like that for post flop play but the starting hands requirements were a little broader could you still get convergance? I mean we all know that there is a fixed amount of the time that you will flop a set. There is a fixed % of the time that you will have an over pair to the board.

To me it could just be that simple. The scary thing is if that is all it takes to be a marginal winner.

Greg

[NajdorfDefense]

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uhm no. if people were punished just because of "suspicious" activity, our legal system would be a joke.

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Except this isn't a legal situation. Full Tilt is a private business and has the right to say who can play and who can't. No one has a right to play there. These guys are up to some shady [censored], whatever they're doing. Give them their money and send them packing.

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[Tater Chips]

Just discovered this thread from a link on another site.

If anyone is interested in seeing these bots in action, they are currently logged in to Full Tilt right now (5/15/07, 4:55PM CST) as follows:

mariojr: Anthem Club, Cimarron Crest, Hidden Quail, Summit Grove, Roundup Ridge, Diamond Head, Lineshack, Arlington Bridge

0_drunkenboxer: Broadbent, Grand Teton, Lake Mead, Revere, Rose Hills, Water Cocunut, Jade Hills, Miragrande, Tournament18002646-$11,000 Guarantee

As per usual, they have no tables in common.

[Angrymoog]

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Say you were to play only TT-AA pf and you were going to c-bet 100% of the time and you were going to felt any hand that was an overpair, set or better. Would you be able to get this kind of stat convergance?

I think that you would because you are only going to flop a set or over pair a fixed amount and you are getting it all in after that if you can.

If a simple set of guidelines like that for post flop play but the starting hands requirements were a little broader could you still get convergance? I mean we all know that there is a fixed amount of the time that you will flop a set. There is a fixed % of the time that you will have an over pair to the board.

To me it could just be that simple. The scary thing is if that is all it takes to be a marginal winner.

Greg

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That's correct Grey, you would achieve convergent statistics over large sample sizes using that particular rule set.

I outlined my hypothesis a few posts back, where I theorize that they use an odds calculator or similar program as a mechanism on which to base the simple rule set. Otherwise, you begin to have to take into account too many elements to form a simple system or be.tting.

[Tater Chips]

If I were to hazard a guess, my guess would be that this is a husband-and-wife team who aren't using unattended bots, but who ARE using an odds calculator or similar program which advises them on when to call, fold, and raise. Perhaps something similar to Holdem Pirate/Holdem Hawk (I say "similar" because Holdem Hawk/Pirate does not support Full Tilt).

Whatever the case, it seems logical to me that their accounts were not closed because use of such a poker advisor program is not seen as a violation of Full Tilt's policy.

If this is, indeed, the case then I doubt it will result in a large number of "fish" leaving the site. Chances are good that many of them are using a similar, or even the very same program themselves.

[DuggleBogey]

The beauty of a "sweatshop" is that is completely portable. If you can't play at a site for one reason or another, it's a simple matter to open accounts at some other site and you're back in business.

Yet this didn't happen. Full Tilt shut them down and they couldn't bring their system to another site? Why? You have to ask yourself, what's the simplest explanation for that?

[KurtSF]

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The beauty of a "sweatshop" is that is completely portable. If you can't play at a site for one reason or another, it's a simple matter to open accounts at some other site and you're back in business.

Yet this didn't happen. Full Tilt shut them down and they couldn't bring their system to another site? Why? You have to ask yourself, what's the simplest explanation for that?

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They play for rakeback. No rakeback at Stars.