OT - My Drunken Breakdown + a Quest

[The Yugoslavian]

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Right, it's just that you make it sound like it is something that is a total disaster

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Dude, everything curtains talks about is a HUGE OUTRAGE DISASTER or HUGE WORLD CHAMP CRUSH....haven't you noticed? He's like #1 drama queen, [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img].

Btw, I think curtains is spot on in this thread.

Yugoslav

[MannyIsGod]

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Btw, I think curtains is spot on in this thread.


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[Slim Pickens]

Self-destructive behavior is a basic human need. It's born out of a need to advance society at a cost to any individual. A large number of small -EV bets become profitable when the utility of that one big score is able to offset the losses. It's kind of like ICM for society, except the basic result is opposite. ICM usually tells you to pass up a neutral cEV spot because those chips are worth more than half the $$ of what twice as many chips would be worth because of the payout structure. In the same vein, any individual will lose taking a risk, but often society gains more if he succeeds and that's why our behavior has evolved in such a way. If a cave-teen never feels the compultion to go exploring far away, he never finds that new fertile valley for his clan. If the clan has 8 explorers, seven of them die and one comes back. The clan finds it's new home (+EV for the society) even if it's only a marginal gain for the individual, and seven of them just got eaten by bears (way -EV overall for the individual).

I have all sorts of self-destructive impulses, just none that really do anything to my bankroll. I hate to gamble. It makes me feel really, really sick to lose $200 playing BJ, so I never do it. Dumping $150 into the $50 2+2 game actually pissed me off a little (I didn't deserve about $100 of it). I finished up Sklansky-bucks but lost on "real" bucks. Such is life. My other hobbies include some things that others might view as stupid or needlessly-dangerous, yet there's something I could never give up about them. It really pisses me off when people say "Why would you risk all the *blank* you've worked for in your life just for a little rush of *blank*?" It especially pisses me off when it's people whose opinions I value because I think they ought to know better about me.

Point is, I don't like when other people criticize the way I live, and I do well for myself. There's no need to maximize one dimension of life EV while ignoring the others. If young people donk off huge wads and learn something about money management, great. If they don't learn, they probably never will.

[Pasterbator]

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Self-destructive behavior is a basic human need. It's born out of a need to advance society at a cost to any individual. A large number of small -EV bets become profitable when the utility of that one big score is able to offset the losses. It's kind of like ICM for society, except the basic result is opposite. ICM usually tells you to pass up a neutral cEV spot because those chips are worth more than half the $$ of what twice as many chips would be worth because of the payout structure. In the same vein, any individual will lose taking a risk, but often society gains more if he succeeds and that's why our behavior has evolved in such a way. If a cave-teen never feels the compultion to go exploring far away, he never finds that new fertile valley for his clan. If the clan has 8 explorers, seven of them die and one comes back. The clan finds it's new home (+EV for the society) even if it's only a marginal gain for the individual, and seven of them just got eaten by bears (way -EV overall for the individual).

I have all sorts of self-destructive impulses, just none that really do anything to my bankroll. I hate to gamble. It makes me feel really, really sick to lose $200 playing BJ, so I never do it. Dumping $150 into the $50 2+2 game actually pissed me off a little (I didn't deserve about $100 of it). I finished up Sklansky-bucks but lost on "real" bucks. Such is life. My other hobbies include some things that others might view as stupid or needlessly-dangerous, yet there's something I could never give up about them. It really pisses me off when people say "Why would you risk all the *blank* you've worked for in your life just for a little rush of *blank*?" It especially pisses me off when it's people whose opinions I value because I think they ought to know better about me.

Point is, I don't like when other people criticize the way I live, and I do well for myself. There's no need to maximize one dimension of life EV while ignoring the others. If young people donk off huge wads and learn something about money management, great. If they don't learn, they probably never will.

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Nice post Slim. I just want to thank everyone who is helping or has offered to help me after i self-destructed the other night. I understand that many of these posts weren't directed at me, per se, but they all helped me a lot.
I definitely learned a lesson, and i will never do that again. I've decided that keeping myself from playing in the 2+2 games is also stupid because i have a lot of fun at them. Its a fun atmosphere and as long as i don't throw away my bankroll, it will continue to be fun. Playing a 50NL table is much more within my (new) bankroll, so maybe i'll start one of those up sometime soon.

Also, for those that don't know (which is pretty much anyone on the forum who i don't talk to on AIM) i'm on a 2 month (600ish SNG) breakeven streak and i really appreciate all the people that have offered to help me with my troubles.

As Sharf just posted in his 1000th post thread... "This community is awesome"

[Pudge714]

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The bankroll spewing that I see in these 2+2 private games is really ridiculous. I'm not referring to you in particular but it's clear while playing and watching that a lot of 2+2ers have very serious gambling problems. Playing in a risky/dangerous fashion is all good, but simply throwing away money, which plenty of people were doing, is just embarrassing. There are many people that are simply giving away decent sized percentages of their bankrolls in these games, either from the getgo, or winning a few thousand and then simply giving it away by calling giant allins PF with stuff like 96.

I didn't see many of your hands Pasterbator btw, I just get the sense that a few people feel like because its a private, fun game with 2+2ers they have to treat their hard earned money like toilet paper.

Anyway sorry to get all high and mighty, I just think that it's ridiculous the way some people are treating that game. If you have a bankroll of 100k then fine, go for it and play like a complete random psycho (although I still think its stupid). But if you have a bankroll under 50k, theres no way someone should be spewing hundreds/ a thousand dollars by calling allins for $300 PF with total rubbish. It's not funny, its just kind of sad IMO.

If it was some random people and not 2+2ers of course this would be a "good" thing, but to see people whom are posting on this forum, pretty decent players and supposedly trying to do well at poker and build a bankroll just throwing away $ is silly.

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It's true. Personally, i'm not a gambler. I dont play blackjack or any other games besides poker. I don't treat money like nothing WHEN IM SOBER. I'm very good at saving my money and controlling my bankroll. Something much have come over me last night that made me hate money. It was a brutal lesson for me, and its something i'll obviously never do again.

I've decided immediately that playing 100SNGs is the worst possible idea for me to do today, so i'm not doing that. I'm not going to tilt my bankroll away. I hope no one else does as i did last night EVER.

GL at the tables while i grind my bankroll back to normalcy.

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More importantly do you play roulette?

[cakewalk]

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Self-destructive behavior is a basic human need. It's born out of a need to advance society at a cost to any individual. A large number of small -EV bets become profitable when the utility of that one big score is able to offset the losses. It's kind of like ICM for society, except the basic result is opposite. ICM usually tells you to pass up a neutral cEV spot because those chips are worth more than half the $$ of what twice as many chips would be worth because of the payout structure. In the same vein, any individual will lose taking a risk, but often society gains more if he succeeds and that's why our behavior has evolved in such a way. If a cave-teen never feels the compultion to go exploring far away, he never finds that new fertile valley for his clan. If the clan has 8 explorers, seven of them die and one comes back. The clan finds it's new home (+EV for the society) even if it's only a marginal gain for the individual, and seven of them just got eaten by bears (way -EV overall for the individual).

I have all sorts of self-destructive impulses, just none that really do anything to my bankroll. I hate to gamble. It makes me feel really, really sick to lose $200 playing BJ, so I never do it. Dumping $150 into the $50 2+2 game actually pissed me off a little (I didn't deserve about $100 of it). I finished up Sklansky-bucks but lost on "real" bucks. Such is life. My other hobbies include some things that others might view as stupid or needlessly-dangerous, yet there's something I could never give up about them. It really pisses me off when people say "Why would you risk all the *blank* you've worked for in your life just for a little rush of *blank*?" It especially pisses me off when it's people whose opinions I value because I think they ought to know better about me.

Point is, I don't like when other people criticize the way I live, and I do well for myself. There's no need to maximize one dimension of life EV while ignoring the others. If young people donk off huge wads and learn something about money management, great. If they don't learn, they probably never will.

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crack kills slim

[Bonafone]

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Yea, Im just saying....I know guys around 26-27 now that just cannot hold onto their money, despite being decent poker players. Makes me sad to see much younger people behaving in the same way and everyone acting like its cool/normal. IMO it's not normal, its extremely bad, and such habits need to be curtailed as soon as possible. It may be okay for some of you to exhibit such behaviors, but for others it can later on literally end up destroying their life, relationships and etc etc.

And please I am not referring to one person in specific. Some people have the bankroll to screw around with certain amounts of money and some don't.

btw - Also I remember doing stuff like this when I was younger, it's not like I've never been insane. I felt terrible every time afterwards, and these terrible feelings have led to what are now very good bankroll management skills. I can imagine my money management skills might not be as good if I had a group of people encouraging me when I went a bit nuts, and acting like it was cool to either throw away lots of money for entertainment and play way above my bankroll.

It could be that everyone in this game and forum is fine, and will have no money management/gambling problems in the future, however it's just such a serious serious leak and can really lead to huge personal and financial problems, moreso than misplaying AKo when you miss postflop.

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Curtains is wise

DON'T GAMBOOOOOL

ps. curtains. i watched some of your chess vids, pretty cool

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
Self-destructive behavior is a basic human need. It's born out of a need to advance society at a cost to any individual. A large number of small -EV bets become profitable when the utility of that one big score is able to offset the losses. It's kind of like ICM for society, except the basic result is opposite. ICM usually tells you to pass up a neutral cEV spot because those chips are worth more than half the $$ of what twice as many chips would be worth because of the payout structure. In the same vein, any individual will lose taking a risk, but often society gains more if he succeeds and that's why our behavior has evolved in such a way. If a cave-teen never feels the compultion to go exploring far away, he never finds that new fertile valley for his clan. If the clan has 8 explorers, seven of them die and one comes back. The clan finds it's new home (+EV for the society) even if it's only a marginal gain for the individual, and seven of them just got eaten by bears (way -EV overall for the individual).

I have all sorts of self-destructive impulses, just none that really do anything to my bankroll. I hate to gamble. It makes me feel really, really sick to lose $200 playing BJ, so I never do it. Dumping $150 into the $50 2+2 game actually pissed me off a little (I didn't deserve about $100 of it). I finished up Sklansky-bucks but lost on "real" bucks. Such is life. My other hobbies include some things that others might view as stupid or needlessly-dangerous, yet there's something I could never give up about them. It really pisses me off when people say "Why would you risk all the *blank* you've worked for in your life just for a little rush of *blank*?" It especially pisses me off when it's people whose opinions I value because I think they ought to know better about me.

Point is, I don't like when other people criticize the way I live, and I do well for myself. There's no need to maximize one dimension of life EV while ignoring the others. If young people donk off huge wads and learn something about money management, great. If they don't learn, they probably never will.

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IMHO, that explanation is unnecessarily group selectionist. Potentially self-destructive behavior can easily be +EV for the genes in an individual male, especially a lower ranking (often younger) male. A particular young caveman may discover something and increase his status or wealth and thus his mating opportunities and go on to sire many self-destructive offspring.

Very nice post in general though. I'm glad it got bumped.