NL25 Review of High PP lines

RapidEvolution · #1 09-23-2007, 12:14 PM

Okay so these are my biggest spews with high PPs thus far and I'd really like some help so I can take better lines with big PP's in the future. All comments are welcome, but please tell me WHY something is spew and offer an alternative instead of just saying "turn is horrible". [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Much thanks!!

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($9.75)
UTG ($11.80)
UTG+1 ($25.70)
MP1 ($28.65)
MP2 ($12.50)
MP3 ($8.05)
CO ($10.25)
Button ($26.85)
Hero ($27.10)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.6, 2 folds, MP3 calls $1.25, Button calls $1.25.

Flop: ($5.10) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets $4.5, MP3 folds, Button calls $4.50.

Turn: ($14.10) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($14.10) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $7, Button raises to $16.5, Hero raises to $28.1 (All-In), Button calls $4.35 (All-In).

Final Pot: $55.80

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 ($14.70)
MP2 ($25)
CO ($5)
Hero ($24.40)
SB ($26.55)
BB ($31.40)
UTG ($7.60)
UTG+1 ($12.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO checks, Hero raises to $1.35, 2 folds, MP1 calls $1.10, CO folds.

Flop: ($3.30) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $2.5, MP1 raises to $13.35 (All-In), Hero calls $10.85.

Turn: ($0) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($0) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $30

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($27.55)
Button ($14.55)
Hero ($25)
BB ($19.60)
UTG ($31.65)
UTG+1 ($28.15)
MP1 ($10.10)
MP2 ($39.05)
MP3 ($24.25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 4 folds, Hero raises to $1.1, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.35) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, MP1 raises to $3, Hero raises to $8.5, MP1 raises to $12.1 (All-In), Hero calls $2.10.

Turn: ($23.55) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($23.55) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $23.55

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($7.25)
SB ($18.95)
BB ($51.70)
UTG ($4.65)
UTG+1 ($37.25)
MP1 ($27.60)
MP2 ($22.90)
MP3 ($25.65)
Hero ($25.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.1, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.85.

Flop: ($2.55) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $2, UTG+1 raises to $6.25, Hero calls $4.25.

Turn: ($15.05) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $18.5, Hero raises to $18.6 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $0.10.

River: ($0) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $52.25

canadonk · #2 09-23-2007, 12:57 PM

Most of these are player dependent reads for me. Is opp a set miner? Will he RR/shove flop with big draws and or 2pr/sets only, have you ever seen him do it with overpairs? So if most of these are unknowns then they're largely coolers. I don't see any horrible mistakes but I'm a donk so I probably shouldn't even be commenting.

RapidEvolution · #3 09-23-2007, 01:14 PM

Hand 3, I'd seen villain get pretty aggro with drawing hands and had 8-9 in his range. I won't go into what he turned up as it made me sick. lol

Hand 1

I've seen this line a lot with busted draws and the turn check seemed really suspicious. I had him on As-x fishing for the 4th spade or a pair with a spade. The turn worries me if he has 10's but I figure he'd bet them. In retrospect I should just call the river here as he probably won't lay down anything I can beat.

In hand 4 I'd seen villain spike 2 sets previously and slowplay them. I had him on a missed set mine that was trying to rep a jack.

In hand 2 I put him on a combo draw or possibly a set afraid of the drawy board. I'm not sure if this call was +EV or not and will pokerstove it to see.

Hand 2

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

50,490 games 0.016 secs 3,155,625 games/sec

Board: 8s 5s 7d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.499% 55.57% 00.93% 28057 469.50 { AdAs }
Hand 1: 43.501% 42.57% 00.93% 21494 469.50 { 99-44, 98s, 76s, 98o, 76o }

does this range seem accurate for hand 2?

Albert Moulton · #4 09-23-2007, 01:23 PM

Please break this up into separate posts next time.

Please include more reads on opponents, too.

Hand 1: Bet/fold the turn for 1/2 pot. Check/call a non-spade river. c/f a spade river. You want to make 1-card draws pay to see another spade, and you want to get non-nut flushes and sets to wake up with a big raise so you can fold. Once you get to the river after betting the flop and turn, you want to give worse hands a chance to bluff without paying off better hands too much, so c/c a modest river bet and probably c/f to a push unless you have some specific read on villain like "calls draws, then overbets river when he misses as a bluff."

As played, when you bet $7 at the river, please fold to the big river raise next time. And if you feel compelled to call, by all means don't push. If you push, then the only hands that call you are ones that beat 1-pair.

Hand 2: MP1 is so short stacked, and the board has so many draws that MP1 might play this way that I can't see folding unless you have a read the MP1 is a nut-peddler. At least you have a backdoor flush draw if he really did outflop you.

Hand 3: MP1 is short stacked. But this time you might actually be able to find a fold on the turn if you have any kind of read on him. Would he limp/call AK preflop? Would he limp/call KQs/KJs preflop then check/min-raise the flop with TPWK? Would he limp/call preflop then check/min-raise the flop with a naked straight draw like 89s or 54s? If he wouldn't play any of these draw/1-pair hands like this, then he has a set. And if you are "pretty sure" he has a set, then call the min-raise and fold to big bet on the turn and/or river. Check behind on the turn if he checks to you. I usually hate folding to the min-raise outright on the flop because even if I'm "sure" he has a set, I'll pay off one min-raise to see what the turn is and what he does with it.

Hand 4: If you cb, then fold to the raise. People don't usually bluff on paired boards, especially into the preflop raiser when the board has paired broadway cards. After all, if he doesn't have a J (or better), then he has to worry that you have AJ or KJs. Sometimes you can check the flop to let worse hands bluff the turn. But if you cb here, then fold to the c/r.

RapidEvolution · #5 09-23-2007, 02:38 PM

Thanks for your time Albert. I did want to keep these hands together as a reference point for later.

Hand 1: I need to remember to ask myself the big questions on making bets/raises on the later streets.

a) will raising get a hand better than mine to fold?
b) If I raise, will I get a worse hand to call?

Not asking these is a leak I intend to fix.

Hand 2: Villain showed 6d, 7c and turned the straight.

Hand 3:I had no reads on villain at the time, but he showed down K-7. (No idea why he was even in the pot preflop)

Hand 4: I will try this line in the future. In this hand villain got cute on the flop with 33, then spiked a 3 on the turn.