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  #1  
Old 08-06-2007, 06:31 PM
Araklion Araklion is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 138
Default Every NL-Donk can exploit me

Random agression>me as it seems. I'm absolutly clueless when situations occur where I'd calldown in LHE. It seems like I have to fold jsut about everthing if someone raises my continuation bet which seems just stupid.

I've also masive problems playing against lagtards.

1)

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
4 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($3, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets $2</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises all-in $23.4</font>, BB folds, Hero is on tilt.

I know nothign about the guy who donked. My raise there is standart hopefully. The guy who pushed is a huge manaic. He runs like 80/15/10(postflopagression) over 100 hands. About 15 hands before he raised from the Hijack, I 3 bet AQs from the smallblind and he pushed allin for about 4 times the pot.
Tell me what to to here. If I keep folding I'm his bitch and if I call and he has it I'm totally on tilt.
Would it btw be an easy fold against a good player? I feel like a TAG would have a set or the straight like always here, right?


2) Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($1, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $1</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $3</font>, 2 folds, Hero ...
Uncalled bets: $2 returned to SB.

Results:
Final pot: $3

Villian is unknown. What to do? I have to bet the flop right? He could be chackraising a lot in LHE but what's his range in NL. Getting stacked be a set/straight seems as bad as folding twopair to a single raise :/

3)
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $0.85</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, 3 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($4.35, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $3</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($10.35, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($10.35, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $7</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $24.35

Villian unknown. Should I bet the turn? If I do and he checkraises me I hate folding as I'd have to fold about 80% of my range here and folding in any Situation where pure bluffing is a winnign play for me opponent seems rather bad.
Having checked behind, I have to call the river, right?

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 08-06-2007, 07:06 PM
KurtSF KurtSF is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,983
Default Re: Every NL-Donk can exploit me

Hand 1, yeah, against a standard TAG I can fold here. Against a total psycho like this guy I think I look him up. Don't tilt after you lose.

Hand 2 I hate the fold here. There are a lot of hands that beat you here, namely 88 and 97, but there are a TON of hands you beat like 99, TT, A8, maybe JJ, and certainly any [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img][img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I tend to see flush draws everywhere, so I'm probably trying to take this to the mat right here on the flop. But there's nothing wrong with calling since you're in position and letting him hang himself with future bets, or folding if the board gets too nasty. I never fold here.

Hand 3 I prefer a bigger raise preflop, but otherwise its well played.
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  #3  
Old 08-06-2007, 07:40 PM
futuredoc85 futuredoc85 is offline
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Location: ATL
Posts: 9,014
Default Re: Every NL-Donk can exploit me

call the 1st hand, id rather raise pf in the 2nd hand provided the 1st limpers are deep enough and id call the flop raise as played, hand 3 is fine postflop but make it $2.70-$3 pf.
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2007, 11:07 PM
Makonnen Makonnen is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 226
Default Re: Every NL-Donk can exploit me

Hand One: CALL. Hand Two: call and pray for low and red. Hand Three. Don't mind the line at all.
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2007, 11:30 PM
Man of Means Man of Means is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 1,244
Default Re: Every NL-Donk can exploit me

It helps if you mention stack sizes.

Hand 1 I'd either flat call (if he's a decent player) or raise with the intention of making him semibluff AI with T9, Q6 or whatever. But don't always follow the SSHE instinct to "jam the flop and punish the draws"

Hand 2, call &amp; re-eval turn. As on Hand #1, a blank card drastically changes your equity vs his range.

Hand 3 looks fine/standard post-flop.
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  #6  
Old 08-07-2007, 01:47 AM
calcbandit calcbandit is offline
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Location: Pittsburgh go Steelers nomnomnom
Posts: 240
Default Re: Every NL-Donk can exploit me

Hand 1 is entirely read dependent as you say. If it's a TAG I like folding, if a maniac, like you said, I call.

Hand 2 pushing is dumb I think (stack sizes?), so calling and seeing what falls is best. Folding seems really bad.

Hand 3 I think is perfect. What's the point of betting the turn? The only good reason I can think of is to get value out of a flush draw or lower PP, but this is offset by the fact that a K will checkraise kill you, and sometimes they might even bluff checkraise you off your hand. Checking lets you off cheap those times they do have a K, but also lets them bluff the river (as was the case) if they have a lower PP or a missed FD. If he checks the river I'll bet myself.
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  #7  
Old 08-07-2007, 04:07 AM
phydaux phydaux is offline
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Location: Pre-Flop Razor
Posts: 2,016
Default Re: Every NL-Donk can exploit me

*grunch*

Hand 1 - Well played. Easy call. You said yourself he's a maniac who likes to shove. So take his money.

Hand 2 - Ug! Gak! Gasp! You had SCs on the Button! That's a raising hand! In fact, with just five players and you on the Button, 93o is a raising hand. Never limp. In short handed NL position and aggression are king.

You understand that the reason you were check-raised on the flop is because you didn't raise preflop, right? SB had you pegged as just raising the flop based on your position alone, since most flops miss most people. But this flop didn't miss you, did it? After the CR, there's $5.00 in the pot. Make a pot-size raise. If he shoves, then flip a coin. I'd call a shove, though.

Hand 3 - Good check on the turn. That's called "pot control." River is a crying call. Your hand is too vulnerable to bet/raise, but too good to fold. Although a fold on the river probably isn't a mistake. I'd have called, though.
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  #8  
Old 08-07-2007, 04:25 AM
phydaux phydaux is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pre-Flop Razor
Posts: 2,016
Default Re: Every NL-Donk can exploit me

Alright, read the whole thread now. You nailed it in the very first sentence - Aggression is owning you. That's because you're not wielding aggression plus position yourself, so you're getting bullied. You want to be the bully.

NL is a big change in mind-set. Limit is all about the hand you will likely have at showdown. NL is all about the hand you might have right now, compaired to the hand your opponent is likely to have right now. So you want to your bets to tell a story about your awesome hand. Start telling the story about your pocket monster before the flop.

But always remember position. Being OOP sucks WAY more at NL than it does at limit. So since you know this, punish your opponents for foolishly playing hands out of position against you.
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