A bit of a playalong from a video hand of mine..

[train.]

check/call to give him a chance to bluff at the pot and a free showdown if he's ahead and checks behind.

please comment on Comma's turn suggestions. I found myself agreeing w/him and I would like to hear your thoughts. thanks, bob.

[Absolution]

I would still value bet this, but not expect to get paid that often. He seems like the type that is aggressive when he is actually holding a, albeit sometimes marignal, real hand or draw. I think you can trust a raise means you're beat on this board and if you check he will be too scared to bet anything except a hand that beats you.

[BionicComma]

[ QUOTE ]
K, so I checked the turn with the intention of folding. His range that he bets with (I'm not sure if he he bets gutshot+ace high hands like AK, AQ, A8, etc) is pretty far ahead of mine here and I don't think I've got sufficient odds to call the turn given that I'll rarely see him check behind on the river if we make it this far. I'm pretty sure but not positive he'd bet all pairs on the turn. He didn't seem very good and he was playing very aggressively overall so I can't say 100% that he'd bet all paired hands on the turn here but I'd give it a reasonable chance.

So I checked. And he checked.

The river was the 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] giving a 3-flush, 4-straight, and 4 overcards. Board J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Now normally I would valuebet the river when he checks behind on the turn because everyone pays off with Ace high way too often. But here I was puzzled and sat for a bit before making a decision. What do you do?

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the key here is your read. We know he's going to bet with any pair, but also that he didn't like the turn enough to play it when you checked it to him.

Hands like AK, Axs etc. are definitely within his range and he's not likely to fold his pair, so bet-fold is a bad choice (you're not making him fold usually and the range of hands you beat that he'll call or bluff with is small).

Bet-call is out for the same reason. If he's raising you, you're sunk.

The pot is now 4BB. If you check-call you're not winning 1/5th of the time, so check-fold is the play.

Is it really valuebetting when you fire into such a small pot with such a weak hand? 1 bet to get 5 with low pair? No thanks.

I still disagree with the flop call, btw.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]


The pot is now 4BB. If you check-call you're not winning 1/5th of the time, so check-fold is the play.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I check-call I'm getting 5:1 so I need to be good 17% of the time to turn a profit. Given how oddly he played his hand, what do you think checks behind on the turn and bets the river?

Rob

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
I would still value bet this, but not expect to get paid that often. He seems like the type that is aggressive when he is actually holding a, albeit sometimes marignal, real hand or draw. I think you can trust a raise means you're beat on this board and if you check he will be too scared to bet anything except a hand that beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to be ahead 55% of the time I'm called for a bet to have any value. I also have to be confident that I'll never be bluffraised. It's a weird spot because I'm more of a favorite if I bet than if I check-call, but betting here seems like it shows less expectation than check-calling due to my semilimited reads.

Rob

[fretelöo]

I think I'd just call. He'll think his A-high is good often enough. if BB is as aggro as you say, I doubt he'd check a 9 on the turn. He'd bet again hoping you fold your 77 or whatever. Same with a T. He's got K-high.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'd just call. He'll think his A-high is good often enough. if BB is as aggro as you say, I doubt he'd check a 9 on the turn. He'd bet again hoping you fold your 77 or whatever. Same with a T. He's got K-high.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a lot more afraid of hands he has with a King than hands he has with an Ace. KQ, KJ, KT, K9, K8, K7 all beat me here. :P

Rob

[fretelöo]

I don't think an "overaggressive" villain who once bet an 8 on a KJxxwhatwasit board would check through any reasonable pair here. Likewise, I don't really assume him to check the turn with a good draw. He might, but I doubt it. If he's rivered the GS, fine, good for him. Villain has Ax though. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[DavidC]

I kinda like betting and calling down vs a raise but folding if MP gets at all involved.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]


The turn is the T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].



[/ QUOTE ]

I like the c/c, c/f line now.

Interesting about the c/c on the flop, though. Is there any hand that you would consider bet/folding vs mp and bet/calling vs BB?

Just curious about that.