A bit of a playalong from a video hand of mine.. - Page 2

Entity · #11 03-15-2007, 11:59 AM

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You check obviously to see what the action is behind you. I'm more worried about MP than the BB because this board hits a lot of limping hands and you're in a reverse implied odds situation. If BB makes a continuation bet and MP folds I would peel one and reevaluate on the turn.

p.s. Thinly veiled advertisement is meh.

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I included the link to Roadtorobusto because I'm going to blog about the entire hand and my thoughts there, so people who want to read ahead can go ahead and do that. Your thoughts are pretty good here WRT the hand, though.

Rob

NIX · #12 03-15-2007, 03:38 PM

I . . . with the intention of . . . if . . .

check/folding/anyone bets

That board could've hit the limper's hand and the raiser could have us in bad shape with an overpair. Even if the raiser just has overcards, but has a draw of some sort to go with it, it's still only a coinflip with us not controlling the action OOP.

tyler_cracker · #13 03-15-2007, 03:58 PM

i think we're ready for the turn, entity.

Entity · #14 03-15-2007, 04:08 PM

I checked, BB bet, MP folded, and I called.

Here’s the reasoning behind my call:

BB is betting with 100% of his hands here. If MP calls, the parlay of MP and BB both having draws that miss will be way too tough for my hand here and I’d muck instantly. Just classic reverse implied odds. However, at this point I’m getting 7:1 with what will be the best hand often vs. a very aggressive player. The board isn’t such that my hand has a whole lot of value — even the weakest hands he’ll hold usually have around 6.5-7 outs and will put me to some sort of test so I don’t want to be building a big pot yet. This is what I consider a defensive check-and-call, and it leaves me option to lots of options on the turn. Depending on the turn, I may bet, I may check-call, I may check-raise, and obviously I may check-fold (I do this more than anything else). Basically, I’m check-calling this flop because I don’t feel that my opponent is going to bet the turn nearly 100% of the time, so often I’ll see a river for 1SB and will get paid off by his Ace and sometimes King-high hands when he misses. Additionally, a good portion of the time I’ll check-call the turn intending to check-fold the river (more about this later), to snap off his Ace high hands.

While I’m not a favorite vs his full range of hands (generally I think I’ve got about 45% equity here head’s up), I’ve got enough equity to see a turn card as long as a) I’m not fully committed to showing down 100% of the time, and b) I feel like he’ll give up often enough on the turn that a showdown will only cost betwen 1 and 3SB rather than 5SB.

The turn is the T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

I'm guessing we'll see a lot of the same as we saw on the flop but who knows, so I'll leave it up as playalong.

Rob

BionicComma · #15 03-15-2007, 04:23 PM

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The turn is the T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

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Easy bet-fold vs this guy. Do you really want to showdown 2nd worst pair vs his any two? There are better hands out there. I dont like checking because a check makes him bluff with air and we dont want to pay more to chase 2 outs. The only way you get value out of the hand with with a bet.

bozlax · #16 03-15-2007, 04:28 PM

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so I'll leave it up as playalong.

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"I'm not happy, Bob. Not happy at all."

No point in betting. Check/call with the intention of bet/folding the river.

fretelÃ¶o · #17 03-15-2007, 04:32 PM

Why would we bet? He either has air, then he'll likly fold, or he has us beat. I doubt he'll call with A2. This is the third overcard to our pair - not the right time to get aggro. OTOH, given the read that he's pretty aggro, I could see him semi-bluff raise here with an oesd. I'm fine with check and MAYBE calling a bet. But I doubt it. C/f is my line.

BionicComma · #18 03-15-2007, 04:36 PM

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Why would we bet? He either has air, then he'll likly fold, or he has us beat. I doubt he'll call with A2. This is the third overcard to our pair - not the right time to get aggro. OTOH, given the read that he's pretty aggro, I could see him semi-bluff raise here with an oesd. I'm fine with check and MAYBE calling a bet. But I doubt it. C/f is my line.

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My first response to the turn was to check-fold, but I think betting out here helps us more than hurts us. I would rather be bluffing at the straight or a 10 rather than making another tough choice about my weak pair here. Let him make the choices. This is one of those times where you're playing the player IMO. We don't really like our hand here so ultimately we WANT him to fold. I don't think we want to show down and I don't think this guy ever checks behind unless he's already drawing in which case it will be to 4x more outs than we are.

NIX · #19 03-15-2007, 04:47 PM

I still like the idea of folding the turn, although now that you're heads up against the overagro guy, I suppose our hand has a little more value.

I'm not sure if I like your read that you stand a chance of getting a free card on the turn though. While it would be nice, and most likely let you know you're ahead, I'm not sure if it happens. Going on the read you gave, I'm thinking BB will bet again most of the hands that he bet the flop with. You say he's aggressive and say one time that he didn't bet, he was sitting on ten high, and has taken down a lot of other hands without a showdown. He may value bet ace high (incorrectly here), semi-bluff Qx or diamonds, or potentially bet a smaller pocket pair which is still ahead of 44. Other than possibly Kxs where x is small or smaller suited connectors, 76s/65s, I don't know if we get a free card.

Entity · #20 03-16-2007, 12:02 AM

K, so I checked the turn with the intention of folding. His range that he bets with (I'm not sure if he he bets gutshot+ace high hands like AK, AQ, A8, etc) is pretty far ahead of mine here and I don't think I've got sufficient odds to call the turn given that I'll rarely see him check behind on the river if we make it this far. I'm pretty sure but not positive he'd bet all pairs on the turn. He didn't seem very good and he was playing very aggressively overall so I can't say 100% that he'd bet all paired hands on the turn here but I'd give it a reasonable chance.

So I checked. And he checked.

The river was the 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] giving a 3-flush, 4-straight, and 4 overcards. Board J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Now normally I would valuebet the river when he checks behind on the turn because everyone pays off with Ace high way too often. But here I was puzzled and sat for a bit before making a decision. What do you do?

Rob