Weird situation at Caesars

[dizzle98]

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The dealer is definitely negligent here because the dealer has just made it impossible to know how much the guy actually has, it's just turned into a guessing game. Allowing a player to rathole in the middle of the hand? Yeah, I'd say that qualifies as negligent if the dealer saw it happen.


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What would you like for the dealer to do? He saw it happen as it was happening. I am certain if he knew it was about to happen he would have told the guy not to do it.

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I'd like the dealer to at least say something. It's clearly not the dealer's fault that it happened, but to see something that's clearly not allowed and just sit there like it's nothing? At least a "sir, you need to put those chips back on the table until the hand is over".

Are you of the opinion that dealers should let people rathole and just not say anything? Again, i don't think the dealer is negligent in letting it happen, i think they're negiligent in having seen it happen and just sitting there silently.

[RR]

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The dealer is definitely negligent here because the dealer has just made it impossible to know how much the guy actually has, it's just turned into a guessing game. Allowing a player to rathole in the middle of the hand? Yeah, I'd say that qualifies as negligent if the dealer saw it happen.


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What would you like for the dealer to do? He saw it happen as it was happening. I am certain if he knew it was about to happen he would have told the guy not to do it.

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I'd like the dealer to at least say something. It's clearly not the dealer's fault that it happened, but to see something that's clearly not allowed and just sit there like it's nothing? At least a "sir, you need to put those chips back on the table until the hand is over".

Are you of the opinion that dealers should let people rathole and just not say anything? Again, i don't think the dealer is negligent in letting it happen, i think they're negiligent in having seen it happen and just sitting there silently.

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It depends on the room. if this is a room (or game) where the players are allowed to tell the dealer to STFU and then ignore him the dealer speaking up doesn't really do much.

This always comes as a surprise to people that haven't been around these games much, but there are many casinos where the players are allowed to tell the dealer to STFU or throw things at him for talking. If you are playing in one of these places you should expect the dealer to not talk.

[dizzle98]

If the dealer is going to be "ignored" or "yelled at" after pointing out that someone is ratholing chips then that dealer should be calling the floor over. For all we know based on the original post the other player in the hand may/may not know that this player just stuffed who knows how many chips into their pocket. Or they may be a new player who doesn't know you can't do this (this is 1/2 after all).

Whether the dealer gets yelled at or not I still expect them to uphold some basic rules. Or at the very least to call the floor over. At what point would you like the dealer to say something? If they see a player hiding a card to use later should they let it slide because no other player said anything? Should they allow players to slip an extra couple hundred into their stack after they look down and see aces?

Maybe I've just been lucky. I've played in quite a few B&M's and have never seen an instance where a dealer clearly saw someone cheat and just let it go because they didn't feel like saying anything.

Just out of curiosity are you a dealer RR? You have the sound of having dealt in some of these rooms where dealers are having things thrown at them for daring to speak.

(Also I would have less problem with this if it were a higher stakes games where dealers do oftentimes take more of a backseat role of simply dealing out cards and pushing pots. I would put more of the responsibility on the other player in the hand, though I'd still expect the dealer to point out that it happened at least, but this is 1/2...for all anyone knows neither one of the players in the hand even realize anyone has done anything wrong)

[RR]

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If the dealer is going to be "ignored" or "yelled at" after pointing out that someone is ratholing chips then that dealer should be calling the floor over. For all we know based on the original post the other player in the hand may/may not know that this player just stuffed who knows how many chips into their pocket. Or they may be a new player who doesn't know you can't do this (this is 1/2 after all).

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You are missing the point. In rooms where this is allowed the floor will confirm that the dealer should STFU so the players don't have to tell him. This thing is going away in all but the biggest games.

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Whether the dealer gets yelled at or not I still expect them to uphold some basic rules

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In these rooms the most basic rule is the dealer has nothing to say.

edit to add: I was speaking in very general terms. I doubt the game discussed in the OP is one where the players are able to throw things at the dealer without penalty.

[dizzle98]

So basically the rule is cheat all you want as long as no players see you? If the dealer sees it they'll just look the other way? I can't decide if I want to go to these rooms with 8 friends and just try to shaft that one other player or avoid them like the plague.

I can't even imagine the randomized mayhem that would ensue at most 1/2 games I've seen where half the players have no clue, and the other half have a clue but are wrong on 90% of what they deem the "rules".

[RR]

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So basically the rule is cheat all you want as long as no players see you? If the dealer sees it they'll just look the other way? I can't decide if I want to go to these rooms with 8 friends and just try to shaft that one other player or avoid them like the plague.

I can't even imagine the randomized mayhem that would ensue at most 1/2 games I've seen where half the players have no clue, and the other half have a clue but are wrong on 90% of what they deem the "rules".

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I edited my last post while you were typing. And no cheating occurred in the OP. There is no reason to believe the player was going to try to keep the chips he put in his pocket if the other player raised. For that matter maybe the other player was covered and all he could do would was call or fold. This would be a perfect example of a spot where the dealer really needs to STFU. I am playing my last hand. I bet enough to put the other player all in if he calls and I start picking up my chips because I am leaving. Do you really think the dealer should tell me I'm not allowed to pick up my stuff until the other player decided what he wants to do?

[psandman]

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This thing is going away in all but the biggest games.


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Its not entirely going away, its altering in form.I was recently chastised bya floor for telling a player not to speak a foreign language during a hand. The player complained and I was told that I shouldn't say anything about it unless someone at the table raises the issue.

Sure this isn't being told STFU. If the player said that to me, the floor would probably not be as tolerant about it, and if a player threw something at me its even more likely the floor wouldn't tolerate it (though I did have a player slap my hand once with no repercussions); but there is a growing sentiment of let the players do what they want or they will go elsewhere but at the same time floors still will protect a dealer somewhat from the most rude and abusive players.

[SweetSchollen]

To clarify here, the other player did have chips left to raise, he had not been put allin. If he had I might be able to accept the villian's action, but since he could still raise it just looks like angle shooting or plain ignorance.

[dizzle98]

I agree that this isn't "cheating". That was more in reference to the comment that dealers deal the cards and say nothing pretty much no matter what (my interpretation of what you were saying).

I would also argue that picking up your chips is not the same as taking your chips and stuffing them into your pocket. In all likelihood the player has no other chips in there but who knows. Even so I'd still like to see the dealer at least say something, particularly at a 1/2 game. Even if it's just a reminder so that other players at the table aren't thinking that stuffing chips into your pocket during a hand is an acceptable practice.

Ok so i'll retract my "negligent" and replace it with "i wouldn't let a dealer like this deal in my non-existent card club"

[budblown]

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So basically the rule is cheat all you want as long as no players see you? If the dealer sees it they'll just look the other way? I can't decide if I want to go to these rooms with 8 friends and just try to shaft that one other player or avoid them like the plague.

I can't even imagine the randomized mayhem that would ensue at most 1/2 games I've seen where half the players have no clue, and the other half have a clue but are wrong on 90% of what they deem the "rules".

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I edited my last post while you were typing. And no cheating occurred in the OP. There is no reason to believe the player was going to try to keep the chips he put in his pocket if the other player raised. For that matter maybe the other player was covered and all he could do would was call or fold. This would be a perfect example of a spot where the dealer really needs to STFU. I am playing my last hand. I bet enough to put the other player all in if he calls and I start picking up my chips because I am leaving. Do you really think the dealer should tell me I'm not allowed to pick up my stuff until the other player decided what he wants to do?

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What if the ratholer doesn't have the guy covered by chips on the table, but had extra chips in his pockets that would cover it and this was all 1 big angle to get those chips on the table? What would the recourse then be?