2+2 table blind defense

kerowo · #1 08-22-2006, 12:29 AM

Pretty standard tight 2+2 table that has been doing a lot of folding to pre-flop raises. I had been showing down about as many good hands as weak hands so probably needed a better hand to defend with. Changed up my standard blind defense line of calling pre-flop, c/r flop because I tell everyone here that line in almost every blind defense/steal post. Comments welcome. If you saw the hand give it a while before saying what villain had, see if anyone guesses.

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP2 raises, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls.

River: (7.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

Paxosmotic · #2 08-22-2006, 12:38 AM

Fold preflop. That's not a blind defense, that's calling a preflop raise with [censored]. He's not in CO or BU and has no reason to think he's stealing. Your hand is way too weak to be calling with here.

Check/fold flop.
Check/fold turn.
Check/fold river.

On further examination, is something wrong with your hand converter? That's the only reason I can find for this hand. Did you really have K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or something? You can't seriously think it's a good idea to call K5o out of the big blind in a tight-aggressive game against a raise from middle position, can you? Is this going to be on television? Where are the cameras? What is going on here?

DanoMak · #3 08-22-2006, 12:41 AM

You made the comment this was a poor board to bluff at- and personally I disagree... poor hand to bluff with, but not poor board. However, if the positions were reversed and I was still around by the turn I fold to the reraise.

DanoMak · #4 08-22-2006, 12:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
He's not in CO or BU and has no reason to think he's stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to earn some respect it seems, heh.

Paxosmotic · #5 08-22-2006, 12:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He's not in CO or BU and has no reason to think he's stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to earn some respect it seems, heh.

[/ QUOTE ]
If this was you in MP2, and you're stealing with a hand in the same vein as K5o, post your name on various sites here please, and I will spend the rest of August sitting on your left. I've got my Yellowstone vacation paid for but could really use a go-kart.

V4P · #6 08-22-2006, 12:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He's not in CO or BU and has no reason to think he's stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to earn some respect it seems, heh.

[/ QUOTE ]
If this was you in MP2, and you're stealing with a hand that K5o is so much as even money against, post your name on various sites here please, and I will spend the rest of August sitting on your left. I've got my Yellowstone vacation paid for but could really use a go-kart.

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to have a go-kart...

DanoMak · #7 08-22-2006, 12:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]

If this was you in MP2, and you're stealing with a hand that K5o is so much as even money against, post your name on various sites here please, and I will spend the rest of August sitting on your left. I've got my Yellowstone vacation paid for but could really use a go-kart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you were misinterpreting me or maybe I'm misinterpreting you- but don't worry, take your vacation, cause I can't give you that go-kart. Besides, my bankroll isn't that big.

P.S. AmazingMic (PokerStars) [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Absolution · #8 08-22-2006, 01:02 AM

Looks fine. Villian had A8o?

Zeldark · #9 08-22-2006, 01:18 AM

I think strategy in general for a 2+2 table is a bit, non-standard. Theoretically, the majority of the table is going to be a lot more studied and disciplined than the average fish. Furthermore, not only are most of your opponents more knowledgable than all the other .02/.04 players, the specific 2+2ers have probably read and if they're sharp enough they could remember some of your specific posts/tendencies.

All things considered I think that it is not unreasonable to assume that a shift in the balance of tactics occurs when the added psychology kicks in. Is so-and-so playing by the book or is he adjusting his play to confuse by-the-book thinking?

I know it is not a limit book, but I really liked NL Holdem: Theory and Practice (Though I disliked how they strayed from the tradition HU 2 hands and board, despite the good looking cover). So now to link it with the discussion, I found the part of multilevel thinking useful. "Is he making that bet because he is bluffing, or is does he want me to think that he's bluffing?"

Having said all that, I think I must agree with Pax and K5o is just too weak. What flops would you be happy to see? K5x, 55x, KKx, KKK. Aka, one King or 5 still shouldn't make you happy.

I don't know if I should, but I might defend a raise from the button. Raise from the Button says "I want your blinds, don't fuss." Raise from MP2 says "Bring it on."

kerowo · #10 08-22-2006, 01:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. That's not a blind defense, that's calling a preflop raise with [censored]. He's not in CO or BU and has no reason to think he's stealing. Your hand is way too weak to be calling with here.

Check/fold flop.
Check/fold turn.
Check/fold river.

On further examination, is something wrong with your hand converter? That's the only reason I can find for this hand. Did you really have K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or something? You can't seriously think it's a good idea to call K5o out of the big blind in a tight-aggressive game against a raise from middle position, can you? Is this going to be on television? Where are the cameras? What is going on here?

[/ QUOTE ]

You had left and I was all awone on my own to try and pway this game as best I could all by my wittle self...

But seriously, you are probably right Pax, after I posted this I realized that the first thing I respond to posts like this is that it most certainly wasn't a steal situation. It isn't a hand I generally play from anywhere, however the way the table had been playing for most of the last orbit was very tight, with few hands getting to the turn. I figured there was a better than average chance that he was raising light pre-flop and could get bet off the pot if he missed. If I was always right I wouldn't be playing .25/.50...

Turns out the board conspired against me on this hand. He had the perfect hand to stick around with, which I should have figured out with the turn call, but didn't. I suppose it doesn't make my play any better, but I really wasn't thinking much about my cards in this hand.