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#1
01-17-2007, 12:11 PM
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I can\'t believe I\'m starting a race thread...
But I was debating with people IRL (!) about this and I remember seeing a statement that I'm trying to figure out whether I like it or not.
[ QUOTE ] Race is a social construct because it is an oversimplification of human genetic diversity. [/ QUOTE ] Right now I do... 
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#2
01-17-2007, 12:16 PM
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Re: I can\'t beleive I\'m starting a race thread...
[ QUOTE ]
But I was debating with people IRL (!) about this and I remember seeing a statement that I'm trying to figure out whether I like it or not. [ QUOTE ] Race is a social construct because it is an oversimplification of human genetic diversity. [/ QUOTE ] Right now I do... [/ QUOTE ] Its a view. One thing that seems certain is that people who make claims about race are entirely unable to give any sort of useful definition. Not even those who claim scientific conclusions. chez
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#3
01-17-2007, 12:17 PM
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Re: I can\'t beleive I\'m starting a race thread...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] But I was debating with people IRL (!) about this and I remember seeing a statement that I'm trying to figure out whether I like it or not. [ QUOTE ] Race is a social construct because it is an oversimplification of human genetic diversity. [/ QUOTE ] Right now I do... [/ QUOTE ] Its a view. One thing that seems certain is that people who make claims about race are entirely unable to give any sort of useful definition. Not even those who claim scientific conclusions. chez [/ QUOTE ] No argument form me there [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#4
01-17-2007, 12:59 PM
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Re: I can\'t believe I\'m starting a race thread...
[ QUOTE ]
Race is a social construct because it is an oversimplification of human genetic diversity. [/ QUOTE ] So are species (we arbitrarily decide how much or what kind of difference it takes to call two different animals a different species). So is every human concept. They're arbitrary forms of classifications designed for a particular use.
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#5
01-17-2007, 01:02 PM
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Re: I can\'t believe I\'m starting a race thread...
[ QUOTE ]
So are species. [/ QUOTE ] Species according to Mayr - groups of actually or potentially interbreeding natural populations which are reproductively isolated from other such groups. So, interspecies reproduction cannot make fertile offspring. You see that as a construct? Also, what's the designed use for classifications of race?
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#6
01-17-2007, 01:10 PM
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Re: I can\'t believe I\'m starting a race thread...
[ QUOTE ]
groups of actually or potentially interbreeding natural populations which are reproductively isolated from other such groups. So, interspecies reproduction cannot make fertile offspring. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't the latter just restating the former? "reproductively isolated" = "cannot make fertile offspring". cubes are stable. so, cubes don't push over easily. seems like something is missing?? luckyme
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#7
01-17-2007, 01:12 PM
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Re: I can\'t believe I\'m starting a race thread...
[ QUOTE ]
Isn't the latter just restating the former? "reproductively isolated" = "cannot make fertile offspring". [/ QUOTE ] I intentionally restated it to pre-empt the liger argument.
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#8
01-17-2007, 02:22 PM
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Re: I can\'t believe I\'m starting a race thread...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Isn't the latter just restating the former? "reproductively isolated" = "cannot make fertile offspring". [/ QUOTE ] I intentionally restated it to pre-empt the liger argument. [/ QUOTE ] 'Race' as a classification suffers from tha lack of useful definability. Black Race - has black skin. "what's different about them" Their skin is black. We can categorize anything, but until there are some spin-off information that is meaningful to us, that's all we've done is create a category. 'Species' as tough as it is to define, serves us by making evolutionary and genetic study easier to work with. To use the Pit Bull example . To divide them into Brown and Black Pit Bulls, while it's an identifiable category, doesn't give us anything to work with because nothing comes with it. We merely end up looking at two groups of dogs, one brown on black. Race is much worse. Coming up with a clear definition seem next to impossible and by the time it's broad enough to cover the groups involved it loses most ( all?) of it's secondary information and we are essentally left at the 'Black people are black' starting gate. luckyme
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#9
01-17-2007, 11:50 PM
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Re: I can\'t believe I\'m starting a race thread...
[ QUOTE ]
"reproductively isolated" = "cannot make fertile offspring" [/ QUOTE ] Not a very useful formulation. It is better to distinguish circumstantial reproductive isolation from that which is due to intrinsic incompatibility.
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#10
01-17-2007, 01:23 PM
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Re: I can\'t believe I\'m starting a race thread...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So are species. [/ QUOTE ] Species according to Mayr - groups of actually or potentially interbreeding natural populations which are reproductively isolated from other such groups. So, interspecies reproduction cannot make fertile offspring. You see that as a construct? [/ QUOTE ] Clearly a construct. I have two different 'species' until I put them in geographical proximity and they interbreed. There a dozen different definitions of 'species' for the same reason there is no universally accepted definition of race. [ QUOTE ] Also, what's the designed use for classifications of race? [/ QUOTE ] Identification of members of the species most likely to share my genetic material, and hence to create offspring that tend to reproduce my genes.
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