in which I only complete 99 from the SB

[marchron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Assume the BB and all of the limpers will always call. If I raise, I'm investing $5 more to get $12 more into the pot. So, in a way, I'm giving myself 12-5 or 2.4-1 "odds" on the raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be correct if you was going to either raise or fold, but it's between call or raise, so you only count the odds you're getting on the $3 raise.

[ QUOTE ]

Now let's instead pretend that we're playing some bizarre structure where I post a live $5 blind but it still remains $3 to call preflop. If I "raise," I'm only putting in another $1 to get the same $12 into the pot, giving myself 12-1 "odds." In theory, it would be then profitable to raise with anything I'd be willing to take 12-1 odds on to strictly call.

Am I making the slightest bit of sense at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true, but doesn't really relate to the actual hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay. I've been known to talk out of my ass before, but less since I've been on my diet and quit eating at Taco Bell.

I was working from a similar concept as to why I don't steal from the SB as often at 3/6, because I have to invest $5 to win $4. Obviously it's not totally analagous, since in a steal I'm banking on folding equity more than pot equity in this example, but I thought maybe the $5-to-raise concept would make it similar enough.

[Zeldark]

You have enough opponents so that any overcards would be very problematic. So you're usually banking on the set potential. Your set comes in what, 9:1? So it seems like putting extra money in for your 5:1 talk is unprofitable. Do you think the 9s hold up often enough aside from the set to make up for the difference? Pocket pairs are good versus lots or a little, with a few opponents it seems better to just be happy to see the flop.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Now let's instead pretend that we're playing some bizarre structure where I post a live $5 blind but it still remains $3 to call preflop. If I "raise," I'm only putting in another $1 to get the same $12 into the pot, giving myself 12-1 "odds." In theory, it would be then profitable to raise with anything I'd be willing to take 12-1 odds on to strictly call.

Am I making the slightest bit of sense at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true, but doesn't really relate to the actual hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay. I've been known to talk out of my ass before, but less since I've been on my diet and quit eating at Taco Bell.

I was working from a similar concept as to why I don't steal from the SB as often at 3/6, because I have to invest $5 to win $4. Obviously it's not totally analagous, since in a steal I'm banking on folding equity more than pot equity in this example, but I thought maybe the $5-to-raise concept would make it similar enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. The reason is that with 99 you're *ALWAYS* seeing the flop from this position, so your $2 to complete is a de facto pot contribution (proper use of latin phrase?). Therefore, the raising question is only a matter of the $3 above the de facto $2.

In a blind steal, you're not presuming the $2 is already pot-ward bound, so you need to consider the whole chunk of $5 all at once.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

preflop is fine, regardless of structure

obv bet the flop

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]
looks like you flopped a set. I think I'd start putting money in the pot right away.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what it looks like to me, too.

[Buzz-cp]

OK we all know about jamming this flop--is there some other action you want to show, e.g. the turn is 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? Let's see it!

[marchron]

Nah, not really. It gets less interesting and more painful from there. Your pattern mapper isn't far off, though:

Ultimate Bet 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: marchron is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, marchron completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">marchron bets</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">marchron bets</font>, MP3 calls.

River: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">marchron bets</font>, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
marchron has 9c 9s (three of a kind, nines).
MP3 has Td Jc (straight, king high).
Outcome: MP3 wins 7.50 BB. </font>

[marchron]

[ QUOTE ]
march ron do you ever lose a hand? lol

bet obv

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, not only this one, but this one at a different 3/6 table not five minutes later:

Ultimate Bet 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: marchron is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">marchron raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">marchron bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">marchron bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (5.16 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, marchron checks.

Final Pot: 5.16 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Jc Td (straight, king high).
marchron has Qc Qd (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: BB wins 5.16 BB. </font>

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
march ron do you ever lose a hand? lol

bet obv

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, not only this one, but this one at a different 3/6 table not five minutes later:

Ultimate Bet 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: marchron is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">marchron raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">marchron bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">marchron bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (5.16 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, marchron checks.

Final Pot: 5.16 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Jc Td (straight, king high).
marchron has Qc Qd (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: BB wins 5.16 BB. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

The river check behind is sexy

[NigelSmith]

[ QUOTE ]
The river check behind is sexy

[/ QUOTE ]
Seconded.

Care to share the thoughts behind that, Marchron?