Distribution > Human Life?

[Mickey Brausch]

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Hahah!
Source?


[/ QUOTE ]Ummm. Inability to refute, masquerading as laughter ?

[vulturesrow]

I think a point that is being missed (and please excuse me if it wasnt, I've only skimmed) is the "human dignity question". To me there is something downright appalling about the fact that people would ever feel the need to have to donate an organ in order to better their lives. You can dress it up all you like but at the end of the day, this is something that will disproportionately affect the poor. As society and economy continue to prosper, this eventuality becomes less acceptable to me. I realize the "human dignity question" is a bit nebulous, but its wrestling with these types of questions that makes us human.

[natedogg]

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I think a point that is being missed (and please excuse me if it wasnt, I've only skimmed) is the "human dignity question". To me there is something downright appalling about the fact that people would ever feel the need to have to donate an organ in order to better their lives. You can dress it up all you like but at the end of the day, this is something that will disproportionately affect the poor. As society and economy continue to prosper, this eventuality becomes less acceptable to me. I realize the "human dignity question" is a bit nebulous, but its wrestling with these types of questions that makes us human.

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It's fine to wrestle with the question. It's when we start interfering with other people's personal decisions about that question that our society crosses the line.

Stepping in paternalistically to stop people from interacting freely is something that our government should never be empowered to do.

natedogg

[theweatherman]

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What do you think is going to happen to a poor person who shows up at a hospital red-handed with a full, severed adult liver in his grasp to make a sale?

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That's not how it would happen. The "legitimate" supply lines would simply swell, somewhat at first and then, in certain parts of the world, to significant volume, with organs from "patients" who "died" in a generous mood.

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Its annoying that you are refusing to see logic. As others have already told you:
A) there is a market for organs today in which no one cares where the organs came from.
B) These organs are worth waaaaaaaay more in the black market today than they would be if selling them were legal
C) Anyone who would wait for organ sale to be legalized to steal organs is an idiot - they would be losing out on a ton of money by not doing it today!
D) Open air organ sale would have observers who would be able to out the organ theives and land them in jail for murder etc.

In short, your theory is horribly unfounded. Anyone who would risk stealing organs in a legal market would be facing a higher chance of getting caught, and a lower payoff if they get away with it.

Clearly anyone who would steal organs in a free market is ALREADY going to steal them, and most likely would not support the sale of organs becoming legal. Do you think Pablo Escobar would ever want cocaine to be legal in the US? Hell no.

[Skidoo]

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Its annoying that you are refusing to see logic.

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Asinine and pointless.

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A) there is a market for organs today in which no one cares where the organs came from.

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It's a market that is greatly stunted by state interference, so not relevant for purposes of comparison.

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B) These organs are worth waaaaaaaay more in the black market today than they would be if selling them were legal

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Relevance not established. It could still be worthwhile since scarcity is intrinsic.

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C) Anyone who would wait for organ sale to be legalized to steal organs is an idiot - they would be losing out on a ton of money by not doing it today!

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No. The risk is much greater when the trade can't disguise itself as legitimate.

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D) Open air organ sale would have observers who would be able to out the organ theives and land them in jail for murder etc.

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Incomplete. The stolen organs would be introduced into the "legitimate" supply at the production level, not buy some unknown showing up in the town square with a pickup and some ice chests.

[theweatherman]

How many stolen cars are introduced into the legitimate market?
How much stolen jewelry is introduced into the legitimate market? Or Art? Or yachts? Or any other similarly priced item to an organ?

All these things are traded in open and free markets, yet for some reason there is very little influx of stolen goods into this market? Could this be due to the fact that it would be incredibly difficult to hide the fact that the SUV i am going to sell you is stolen due to over sight and tracking info etc.? Me thinks so.

Granted I am sure that stolen goods are introduced to the market in lesser developed countries. But then again this is where most of the large black markets for organs comes from anyway. In short - this already happens and legalizing the sale of organs will only help alleviate the problem.

[Skidoo]

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How many stolen cars are introduced into the legitimate market?
How much stolen jewelry is introduced into the legitimate market? Or Art? Or yachts? Or any other similarly priced item to an organ?

All these things are traded in open and free markets, yet for some reason there is very little influx of stolen goods into this market? Could this be due to the fact that it would be incredibly difficult to hide the fact that the SUV i am going to sell you is stolen due to over sight and tracking info etc.?

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Why all these questions? Don't you know what you're talking about? I suggest you do a little homework first, and then return to this topic better prepared.

[TomCollins]

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How many stolen cars are introduced into the legitimate market?
How much stolen jewelry is introduced into the legitimate market? Or Art? Or yachts? Or any other similarly priced item to an organ?

All these things are traded in open and free markets, yet for some reason there is very little influx of stolen goods into this market? Could this be due to the fact that it would be incredibly difficult to hide the fact that the SUV i am going to sell you is stolen due to over sight and tracking info etc.?

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Why are these all questions? Don't you know what you're talking about? I suggest you do a little homework first, and then return to this topic better prepared.

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Sharkey admits defeat?

[theweatherman]

Educate me then.

Why is it that you claim that organs will be stolen and then sold in the guise of legally purchased organs, yet this practice is rarely seen occurring with similar large ticket items?

Clearly if this is a sound and safe business practice then shouldn't there be stolen autos flooding the legal markets?

It seems to me that the reason this doesnt occur is because there are observers to the auto market. Vin numbers and insurance records, police reports of stolen cars, etc.

However, when I purchase illicit items I really have no idea where they came from, and frankly I dont really care. I would bet that a good amount of street drugs were stolen at some point, but A) the consumer has no way to know this, and B) why should he/she care? They are already breaking the law as it is.

If organ sales were to be legalized it seems to follow that there would be at least some kind of trail to these organs. Like I mentioned before, insurance records or even tax declarations on the purchase price. In all probability it would be just as hard to sell off stolen organs legitimately as it is to do the same with stolen cars today.

No doubt you are probably correct if you were talking about camcorders or cell phones. These items are easy to sell on the legit market even if stolen. However I doubt anyone is going to be purchasing their organs from a street vendor or coner store where these illegal items are usually sold

[Skidoo]

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How many stolen cars are introduced into the legitimate market?
How much stolen jewelry is introduced into the legitimate market? Or Art? Or yachts? Or any other similarly priced item to an organ?

All these things are traded in open and free markets, yet for some reason there is very little influx of stolen goods into this market? Could this be due to the fact that it would be incredibly difficult to hide the fact that the SUV i am going to sell you is stolen due to over sight and tracking info etc.?

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Why are these all questions? Don't you know what you're talking about? I suggest you do a little homework first, and then return to this topic better prepared.

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Sharkey admits defeat?

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Only when his girlfriend slaps him around.